I live in Canada. My girlfriend is Chinese (also living in Canada), and while we are able to communicate via SMS, her mobile carrier isn’t the best, and so there have often been issues for us with regular texting. She expressed a strong preference to use WeChat, at least as a backup option for when texting fails us. While I have some pretty significant reservations, it’s not the hill I want to die on. So my question is: what can be done to use WeChat without compromising my whole phone? I’m okay with it if our conversations aren’t private, but I’d like to know that I’m not giving unfettered access to all of my phone’s systems and data to the CCP. What can be done to limit the reach of this ubiquitous app on my device?
I’m in China and have to use that piece of crap. So here’s how I locked it down:
- Root your phone with Magisk. There’s no way around it.
- Install Storage Isolation (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=moe.shizuku.redirectstorage) and deny access to all folders.
- Install ApOps (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=rikka.appops) and set pretty much everything to deny or ignore (ignore means the app receives the information “permission granted”, but no data is provided, in case some permissions are “mandatory”). If you intend to use wechat to exchange voice messages or make video calls/send photos, the “use microphone” and “use camera” functions would be required. In a similar fashion the location access if you intend to use the location sharing feature.
- Be acutely aware that wechat is not encrypting messages, neither end to end nor in the server communicaton. Everything you say can (and probably will) be read and archived. Don’t say anything confidential or critical there.
And yeah really, try to convince your wife girlfriend to use signal instead. Or hell, even whatsapp is miles ahead.
My wife is Chinese as well, so even after we leave here she’ll be using wechat to stay in touch with family, no way around it, but using messengers more commonplace in other countries is definitely better. Personally I will move wechat to another phone once we’re out. For now that’s not feasible as it’s too much integrated into every function of life here.
- Install Shizuku -> Doesn’t require root
- Install Island and use the built in work profile feature of your android device
- Install AppOps and block most of the app with garbage data
- Be happy without rooting your phone
Yeah I’ve played around with it in the past, but having to re-establish the wireless adb was quite annoying. Plus I need root for AdAway already, I don’t think that can be achieved via Shizuku, but that might not apply to the OP. I’ve tried island back in the beta stage and it wouldn’t work on my phone, but I guess things have change since. Might give it another try.
Whatsapp uses end to end encryption and is far from as intrusive as wechat.
Second phone just for WeChat.
Failing that use a android work profile and run WeChat inside of that. It should isolate WeChat from the rest of the days on your phone. WeChat would still have access to your location, microphone comment etc but not your data
This is the way. Depending on how much convenience you are willing to sacrifice.
There are one or two apps on F-Droid for using the work partition, and you can force-freeze apps within that, so you can turn wechat actually off when you don’t want it. That also separates wechat from your phone contacts list, without denying it nominal contacts access permission (without which, iirc, it refuses to work).
For extra paranoia, run your dedicated wechat phone permanently through a VPN with location services on the phone turned off. Answer it only in a soundproofed room, Faraday caged with no WiFi connections except the dedicated wechat WiFi. Speak with a funny voice, and if you must show your face, wear a balaclava.
But that might be overdoing it a little.
What about something like Waydroid to avoid spending extra money? Wonder if these are detected on registration.
Was considering Waydroid, but ideally I want something that I can take with me on the go. Some folks have suggested the app Shelter on fdroid though and that seems like an ideal solution for the time being.
To answer the question: GrapheneOS and a separate profile would be the safest but still…
If you are both outside of china there really is zero reason (other than preference) to use that piece of spyware.
To answer the question: GrapheneOS and a separate profile would be the safest
I appreciate the suggestion, but maybe I should add that I’d like to not have to change up my phone too much. It’s a Fairphone 4 running the OEM Android and my preference would be to keep it that way. Are separate profiles like that a thing on stock Android?
If you are both outside of china there really is zero reason (other than preference) to use that piece of spyware.
She travels back to China sometimes, uses it to contact friends and family back home, and uses it to chat with lots of mainlanders here in Canada. For her it’s not weird at all.
In fact, she expressed to me that she’s perfectly comfortable with the fact that they use WeChat combined facial recognition technology in China for payment processing. When you get on public transit, you can have them scan your face and it will automatically charge you the bus fare. It really skeeves me out, but it’s simply not the hill I want to die on in this relationship. I’m crazy about her in so many ways, it’s okay with me if we don’t see eye-to-eye on digital privacy.
If you’re in the US and mostly worried about one app, you can probably devote a Work folder via an app like Shelter to a GF.
Android 15 solves your issues -
https://www.androidauthority.com/android-15-private-space-hands-on-3432113/
Private Spaces when they come to Fairphone will be perfect for this.
Personally I’d be way more concerned with using OEM Android in the West than using wechat anywhere but if it’s really an issue for you then I’d say insist on trying session or signal… One of those are probably your best options if you’re worried about being spied on…
If she’s unwilling to try them or doesn’t like them then I guess you have to settle for wechat or traditional SMS (although without RCS I find SMS to be a trip to a previous decade lol)
Ignore the dumbass “why dOn’T yOu jUsT uSe sOmEtHinG bEtTeR” replies. Anyone who has a partner knows that the onus is generally on the privacy-conscious one in the relationship to make these types of concessions, since the other person is usually incapable/unwilling to use something better.
And, let’s be fair, for most people the real loss from this level of compromised privacy/security is far less than the real gain from helping your relationship.
Sometimes I look at products I use from dubious companies, take a step back, and think, this company is actually a blessing in my life even if there is a smaller curse attached. That said, I’m grateful for all the tremendous effort put in by many people to make the digital (and rest of) world a safer, more private, fairer and more honest place. And I try to do at least a little of my share!
If they are actually totally unwilling to use an other messaging app that has fewer of said negatives, is the partner really interested in that relationship?
I mean, just look at the arguments.
Form OP’s side, it’s privacy, respect of the user by the service, human freedoms basically.
From the partners side, as I understand, it is pure convenience.
Please reread my first paragraph after reading this second one. It will now hopefully make sense, if it didn’t at first.
But to be honest maybe I’m not qualified for this question or something because I have a different attitude to this problem.
To me it’s not my primary purpose to find a partner, and everything else is secondary.
To me, getting to know that someone is neck deep in mass surveillance tech and is so comfortable with it that they are inseparable, instantly turns me off. I don’t want to live with someone who is perfectly fine with the state messaging app constantly scanning my face with an app on my phone, because that means that our values are clearly very different.
If your willing to throw your multi-year relationship away over… software preferences, are you actually interested in the relationship at all?
We’ve only been dating for about 6 months, but I agree with the sentiment of what you’re saying. In any case, we care for each other a lot and want to see the relationship last a long time.
It’s not at all software preferences. It’s not that I would tell “matrix or I don’t want to see you again”, it’s “switch from that chinese spy tool or we better break up”, as there will be a lot of other things we won’t be able to agree on. Facebook is not even that bad as wechat.
See? It’s not “software preferences”. It’s differences in personal values as big as a chasm. It’s that I value my privacy, and am not willing to give it up, at least absolutely not that much of it. If our values are so very different, that’s a good sign that you shouldn’t ignore.
And then, I’m not sure where you read about a multi-year relationship. I don’t think such a question as OP’s would pop up after multiple years of being used to it.
Relationships (of all kinds) are about compromise. You have to recognize that outside of the echo chambers in communities like this one, literally nobody cares about digital privacy to the extent that us nerds do. So you can choose to be dogmatic in your approach and alienate yourself from the >99% of people in the world who don’t care, or you can recognize that your own desires for digital privacy need to be weighed against your desires to form meaningful connections with other people.
Personally I prefer to be pragmatic in my approach. I do what I can to look after my privacy within the constraints of actually doing what I need to do to connect with other people. That’s why I made this post. My mind is made up that I’m going to at least try to use WeChat, but within that constraint, I want to do everything in my control to limit the app’s visibility into the rest of my system.
Relationships (of all kinds) are about compromise.
Exactly. As I have understood, she is not willing to use an other messaging app. It seems as if only you are ready to have a compromise.
to the extent that us nerds do
This is not “not caring to that extent”. This is not even just not caring at all. This is straight out ignoring and nullifying any and all concerns of one of the parties over privacy, by the other one.
So you can choose to be dogmatic in your approach
The only dogmatic thing here would be to say “only matrix”, or “only signal”, or whatever. As I understand you have attempted to offer multiple options.
people in the world who don’t care
It’s mostly irrelevant if they care about it. In a healthy relationship no one is The Boss whose decisions must be accepted. Instead if one party does not care about something, but the other very much does, they can accept that and live with it, if that’s not a terrible choice. For example if your wife does not want to eat meat, would you force them to do so, because you don’t want to deal with making meatless meals? I often eat meat, but I would be ready to give it up regularly doing so if need be. Or if they don’t want to deal with the selfhosted media store, ok, fine, let her keep her Netflix subscription. This however, is not about pleasures, but about giving up or not human rights important to me.
In this situation however, it sounds like as if your girlfriend with be “The Boss”
But to be honest maybe I’m not qualified for this question or something because I have a different attitude to this problem.
To me it’s not my primary purpose to find a partner, and everything else is secondary.
It does strike me as quite strange that you would type up paragraphs and multiple comments accusing others of pursuing bad relationships when you appear to have very little experience yourself.
You could sandbox it into a work profile that doesn’t have access to your main profile. Storage is completely segregated, and the work profile can be easily disabled when you’re not using it.
The best solution is obviously to choose another platform and convince your girlfriend to use that, explaining how this little extra effort on her part to use another app goes a long way with you in terms of appreciation and understanding of a partner’s boundaries and comfort zone.
