Democrats voted for genocide. Surprise.
Even a caveman can read between the lines.
“Speech that is critical of Israel or any other government cannot, alone, constitute harassment,” ACLU leaders wrote in a letter last week urging lawmakers to oppose the measure.
lmao you missed a syllable, mate. Check mirrors before lecturing others on reading.
No. Well, not here, now, with this vote, anyway.
What was voted for, this time, in this bill, was the power to silence dissent over the funding of genocide (or any criticism of related Zionist activities) henceforth. This is, of course, a clear and obvious 1A violation which, given the comportment of the current SCOTUS, might just be meaningless… And this is also glossing over the massive financial influence of the pro-Israel lobby that brought this about.
It’s an importance nuance, but one well worth distinguishing.
The article says:
The measure passed in a 320-91 vote. Twenty-one Republicans and 70 Democrats voted against the legislation.
The bill, titled the Antisemitism Awareness Act, would mandate that the Education Department adopt the broad definition of antisemitism used by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, an intergovernmental group, to enforce anti-discrimination laws.
The international group defines antisemitism as a “certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews.” The group adds that “rhetorical and physical manifestations” of antisemitism include such things as calling for the killing or harming of Jews or holding Jews collectively responsible for actions taken by the state of Israel.
This seems good at first glance, as it clearly separates Israel and Judaism, which would be very clearly against the views of Netanyahu and his conservative government. My only issue is that it could be interpreted differently to give IHRA the agency to change their definitions, and they’re not generally unbiased when dealing with Israel. They had a highly controversial list of “examples of antisemitism” which defended Israel with fervor.
as it clearly separates Israel and Judaism
What are you talking about? The definition CLEARLY combines Israel and Judaism into one category, as in, any criticism of Israel becomes antisemitic hate speech.
Have you even actually read the definition?
You seem to have trouble reading the text you’re replying to. I’ll paste if a few more times to make it easier for you.
The international group defines antisemitism as a “certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews.” The group adds that “rhetorical and physical manifestations” of antisemitism include such things as calling for the killing or harming of Jews or holding Jews collectively responsible for actions taken by the state of Israel.
The group adds that “rhetorical and physical manifestations” of antisemitism include such things as calling for the killing or harming of Jews or holding Jews collectively responsible for actions taken by the state of Israel.
holding Jews collectively responsible for actions taken by the state of Israel.
holding Jews collectively responsible for actions taken by the state of Israel.
The key text:
Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g. by claiming that the existence of a state of Israel is a racist endeavor.
This is where the slight of hand happens. The problem with self determination is that we don’t live in an empty world. My right to self determination can’t impinge on your right to self determination. So this definition doesn’t take into account competing political projects, agendas etc. This is about Israel, but notice they start with denying the Jewish people the right to self determination, then the example they give is claiming that the state of Israel is a racist endeavor. Now Judaism is conflated with political Zionism. These two things are not the same. And people have a right to believe that creating Israel is ok. But I have a right and you have a right to disagree that the formation of Israel was morally OK, politically acceptable. I can say that creating Israel came at the expense, of the Palestinian people. And that the creation of an ethnostate as such affords Israelis different rights whether or not you’re Jewish. And I don’t have to support the principal of an ethnostate. I dont belive in kurdish ethnostates, I don’t believe in white nationlist ethnostates, I dont believe in Arab or Islamic ethnostates, and I don’t believe in Jewish ethnostates.
I can say that. Unless we follow this definition.
for reference: the actual definition (if you can get it to load its getting the internet hug of death): https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism
and the bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/7921
I assume “calling for the killing or harming of Jews” is meant in the general sense. But what happens if it’s directed at one person, who happens to be Jewish. Let’s say the individual is a criminal and people wish harm upon them. Would that count?
I feel like the illegality of threatening to murder a specific person was never really in question regardless of legislature waiting on the Senate’s approval,
But Fuck Netanyahu
Calling for the killing or harming of someone is not the same as threatening someone.
For example, I would never say “I’m going to kill Netanyahu”, but I AM aware of the FACT that the world would become a better place if someone, for example himself, did.
Likewise, it’s always been illegal to threaten Jewish people, just like anyone else, but this law is at the very least a step towards criminalizing all criticism of the actions of a fascist apartheid regime by equating Israel and by extension its government with all Jewish people, which is itself a very antisemitic thing to do.
What a rare W
The group adds that “rhetorical and physical manifestations” of antisemitism include such things as calling for the killing or harming of Jews or holding Jews collectively responsible for actions taken by Israel.
This is actually really good and a point I’ve tried to make to lukewarm success. The Israelis are not always in favor of the actions of their government much like we Americans aren’t. Making this distinction is important so that we remember who we’re actually angry at and who we demand action from regarding the clear genocide of the Palestinians.
Context: I’m an American Jew who is furious with Bibi’s actions and the IDF.
I wouldn’t call it a W just yet, the IHRA have defended Israel a lot in the past and I could see this being used to crackdown on the protests against Israel, even those done by Jewish people.
Its not a W whatsoever, its a complete conflation of Judaism with political Zionism.
This is a disaster of a bill. It’s basically expanding any criticism of Israel to be considered antisemitism.
Live breakdown of its contents here:
This is a disaster of a bill. It’s basically expanding any criticism of Israel to be considered antisemitism.
I went to the link but its a livestream which at the time I tuned it didn’t seem to be giving the context you’re describing.
I’m looking at the text of the bill and it looks like the definition is locked to a specific timed definition:
“(1) means the definition of antisemitism adopted on May 26, 2016, by the IHRA, of which the United States is a member, which definition has been adopted by the Department of State;” source
Further the May 26, 2016 definition appears to be this:
On 26 May 2016, the Plenary in Bucharest decided to:
“Adopt the following non-legally binding working definition of antisemitism :”
“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”
I see no mention of Israel being protected from any kind of criticism in either one of these. It looks like criticism of Israel isn’t being restricted here.
What are you seeing that would contradict what I’m seeing the text of the law?
Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.
The first one is a rope-a-dope where the definition is about Judaism, but the example is about Israel. The rest don’t even bother with the feint any more and are all about Israel.
If this gets passed into law, any criticism of Israel or Israeli policy is effectively hate-speech under US law. This is happening right now, 100% because of the ongoing protests in support of Palestine, and I guarantee you will be used against those students if made into law.
This is not a W… This boils down to conflating zionists with all Jews. Under these definitions there is basically no differentiation anymore. Which is fine if you’re a Zionist, but otherwise just lumps you in with them. It removes the distinction.
It’s like saying because the German government was run by Nazis, that all Germans were Nazis, even those against the government.
There’s a comment thread below yours that I’d love for you to read. This isn’t a “hey fuck off” but an actual ask since one of the comments is very similar to my mindset of the bill and I believe we can have a pretty good convo once you read the mindset a bit.
I agree that it has potential for misuse, but read the thread and let’s discuss (also it’s bedtime here so expect a delay in response from me please)
Def not a W. More like an L. Jews and Zionism are not one.
Sit at a passover with a Zionist and you’ll know they are terrible people holding Israel hostage.
I understand that you’re trying to be helpful, but you’re jewplaining my culture to me. Please stop.
I’m fully aware that zionism does not equal judaism .
I’m also aware of some of the more problematic parts of the bill, but none of it directly ties Judaism to Zionism. The closest we get is this section
“Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g. by claiming that the existence of the State of Israel is a racist endeavor”
but even that at the moment is a stretch. The right to self-determination and sovereignty are rights respected by most every country and the UN. What I see as problematic would be potential future law that would define the boundaries of the State of Israel to include Palestine.
Mind helping me see your perspective on what makes this an L?
Edit: I just realized that my attempt to shorthand does not equal got rekt.
@binthinkin
Hopefully you can forgive the typo and we can still discuss
The definition Democrats just voted for effectively equates Judaism with political Zionism.
If you have a shred of hope that we can turn the ship on the ongoing Israeli genocide, you should be 100% against this bill.
The definition Democrats just voted for effectively equates Judaism with political Zionism.
Where are you seeing that? This is what I see:
On 26 May 2016, the Plenary in Bucharest decided to:
“Adopt the following non-legally binding working definition of antisemitism :”
“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”
Where are you seeing Zionism or Israel mentioned or protected?
The language I’m taking issue with is:
“Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g. by claiming that the existence of the State of Israel is a racist endeavor”
and I explain why its a problem here:
It’s in the part “Accompanying the IHRA Definition are 11 examples that “may serve as illustrations”.
This is probably the major one people would have issue with because you could get convicted of antisemitism for just speaking the truth.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
I really, really do not want to be lumped in with Zionists.
I don’t agree at all with what’s happened to the Palestinians at Israel’s hands, and I have no trouble saying both Zionists and Israeli govt are wrong here.
I have never visited Israel for how toxic Zionists ironically sounded, considering our history in Germany, and I’m damn glad I never will. You’re making us all look bad, you fucking idiots.
Agreed. I’m Jewish but I’m American. I’m not Israeli. I don’t support Israel’s apartheid or its genocide. I’ve never cared much about Israel in terms of my “heritage” and I’ve never even been especially interested in visiting beyond wanting to see some of the archaeology.
I am so tired of being associated with Israel and it’s Israel’s fault.
