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So, when are we changing this forums name from Technology to it’s actual purpose of late “every click and rage bait post about Tesla and Musk so people can circlejerk worse than reddit”?
Unfortunately, all the current tech news is either people running naked scams or people debunking them.
The tragedy of our modern era is how much money we’ve invested in selling people a box labeled “Newest Life Changing Gadget” that’s just full of rocks.
Check out the podcast TrashFuture. They do a bit about a shitty tech enterprise every episode, sometimes twice a week. From Juicero to Neom, the list of awful tech bullshit is limitless.
It’s literally nothing but bullshit about Tesla and Twitter. All day long. No one cares!
I want to know about some actual tech, not the drama.
The elephant in the room is that the NHTSA still doesn’t have a director, and hasn’t had a long-term director since 2017.
Steven Cliff was the director for 2 months in 2022. Aside from that, this important safety organization has been… erm… on autopilot (see what I did there?) and leaderless.
How are we supposed to keep tabs on car safety if the damn agency in charge of automobile safety doesn’t even have a leader?
Imagine naming a feature “Full Self-Driving,” and yet you can’t take your attention away from the road and must be ready to take over at a moment’s notice.
It’s ok, it’s in beta, so some features may not be complete just yet, but hey, let’s just release this to the public anyways.
Let’s be fair. It could be called Driver Assistant Plus and you people would still be complaining because this isn’t about Tesla
I complained because it absolutely sucked. Only Tesla would release this garbage in such a fraudulent manner, no other company would risk the lawsuits. Tesla’s been killing people with autopilot since 2016, and FSD since it was released to the public. That should make you think, but that seems to be hard for some people when it comes to a Musking,
Autopilot or FSD Beta has never been something you’re supposed to rely on and every Tesla owner knows this. If they drive over someone it’s the fault of the driver, not the vehicle. Accidents will always happen and if you focus on individual incidents you’re missing the big picture. You’re never going to reach 100% safety and 99.99% safety means 33000 accidents a year in the US alone. Also the little statistics we have about this indicate that drivers with FSD or Autopilot engaged already crash less than the average.
According to this report, the average Tesla equipped with FSD Beta, driven on predominantly non-highway sections of road, crashes 0.31 times per million miles, a dramatic decrease from the average American, who crashes 1.53 times every million miles.
Let’s be fair. Elon could be killing a man, on camera, and shout a confession afterwards and you would still find excuses for his behaviour and tell us we’re just misinterpreting facts…
There’s plenty to criticize Musk for. Your apparent assumption that anyone not violently agains him must be a fan is just further evidence for the lack of ability to think rationally about the subject.
It’s just a driving assistant, like in any other car. As far as I know, currently Mercedes is the only one who implemented autonomous driving, and even that one is limited to some specific areas. But at least that one is real. So much, that legally Mercedes (the company) is considered to be the driver of such cars, in case anything happens on the roads.
Depends on your definition for autonomous driving which mainly depends on your ODD but they’re not the only ones. Honda ,Volvo and GM have something. Others (i.e. BMW) have stuff next year but they’re all going with more accurate names. CoPilot, PilotAssist, Super cruise, Traffic Jam Pilot. Makes it clear that these are drive assists, not drive replace.
Mercedes has Level 3 autonomy in certain highway situations, so you are legally allowed to watch a video or read a newspaper. You just need to be able to take over again within 20 seconds or so.
Others are following close up, I think Audi had to postpone Level 3 a bit etc. BMW has something in the pipeline as well.
But these are really more than drive assists. I really find the “Level n” specifications more helpful than “drive assist” vs “autonomy”
None of the other brands oversell what they are offering.
You’re absolutely right, it can be quite misleading to name a feature “Full Self-Driving” when it still requires constant attention and intervention from the driver. The expectations set by such a name may not align with the reality of the technology’s current limitations.
You’re absolutely right, it can be quite misleading to name a feature “Full Self-Driving” when it still requires the driver’s constant attention and readiness to take control. The expectation that the vehicle can handle all driving tasks autonomously is not aligned with the current reality. It’s important for automakers to be transparent and accurate in their naming conventions to avoid any false expectations.
I remember reading a post that claimed that Tesla’s safety rating was given to them because a bunch of their crashes were determined to be human error - because the self-driving feature would automatically disconnect if it faced a crash it couldn’t avoid.
Fairly certain the statistic requires fsd to have been disabled for 10s before or is counted as human-caused
Are there any truly autonomous machines which don’t require a human to monitor?
Yeah, got a small delivery car in my country that drives the streets fully autonomous. It is used to deliver groceries to a distribution point.
It was kind of hallucinating to see it drive past. Since the car has a sort of cockpit, but it is too narrow to seat any human.
It is currently limited to 25 kph, and someone supervises it remotely at all times and can intervene. Just to be on the safe side. Although that rarely happens.
The main reason it can do this is because it always drives the same route.
https://press.colruytgroup.com/collectgo-tests-unmanned-vehicle-in-londerzeel#
Lots. Toasters, refrigerators, robot vacuums, thermostats, smart home lights, etc.
The reason why self-driving cars are extra tricky is both because they have a much more complex task and the negative consequences are sky high. If a robot vacuum screws up, it’s not a big deal. This is why it’s totally irresponsible to advertise something as having “full” autonomy when the stakes are so high.
I feel like even with fully autonomous cars, there’s going to be laws about how the main driver should always be alerted. This would be the case unless our cars are their own independent drivers like a cab.
Honestly, there should be laws against full self driving modes unless they can be proven to be good enough to not require driver intervention at all, and the manufacturer can be legally considered as the driver in case of an incident.
Requiring a driver to be alert and attentive to the road while not doing anything to operate the car runs contrary to human psychology. People cannot be expected to maintain focus on the road for extended periods while the car drives itself.
I don’t know exactly where the line should be drawn between basic cruise control and full self driving, but either the driver should be kept actively involved in driving or the car manufacturer should be held liable for whatever the car does.
This is on par for Elon’s entire career. He loves claiming success and taking credit for things he either didn’t accomplish himself, or things he hasn’t accomplished yet.
Like popularize electric vehicles, create a reusable rocket or put global internet around the earth? Never gonna happen right?
The worst it will do is pick the wrong lane and detour a bit to get back on track.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/tesla-car-crash-nhtsa-school-bus/
Counter-counterpoint: I’ve been using it since 2019. I think you’re exaggerating.
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It aggressively tries to center itself, always. If you’re in a lane and it merges with a second lane, the car will swerve sharply to the right as it attempts to go back to the middle of the lane.
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It doesn’t allow space for cars to merge until the cars are already merging. It doesn’t work with traffic; it does its own thing and is discourteous to other drivers. It doesn’t read turn signals; it only reacts to drivers getting over.
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If a motorcycle is lane-splitting, it doesn’t move out of the way for the motorcycle. In fact, it assumes anything between lanes isn’t an issue. If something is partially blocking a lane but the system doesn’t recognize it as fully “your lane”, the default is to ignore it. The number of times I’ve had to disengage to dodge a wide load or a camper straddling two lanes is crazy.
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With the removal of radar, phantom braking has become far, far worse. Any kind of weather condition causes issues. Even if you drive at sunset, the sun can dazzle the cameras and they don’t detect things that they should be able to - or worse, they detect problems which aren’t there.
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It doesn’t understand road hazards. It will happily hit a pothole at 70 MPH. It will ignore road flares and traffic cones. When the lanes aren’t clearly marked (because the paint has worn away or because of construction), it can have dramatic behavior.
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It waits so long to brake, and when it brakes it brakes hard. It accelerates just as suddenly, leading to a very jerky ride that makes my passengers carsick.
The only time I trust FSD is when it’s stop-and-go traffic. Beyond that I have to pay so much attention to the thing that I might as well just drive myself. The “worst thing it can do” isn’t just detour; it’s “smash into the thing that it thought wasn’t an issue”.
It doesn’t read turn signals
It does in the FSD beta (somewhat). It even brakes and allows them in if it detects that they have a signal on. It doesn’t understand merges as well, but it’s still better than regular autopilot. All your other points are pretty valid. I am constantly taking it out of AP Ana putting it back in during a city drive, even though I have “FSD”.
I have only been driving a Tesla for a few days in 2022, but i fully agree with you, i wanted to specifically test the FSD and i had so many incidents where it tried to get into an appearing turning lane, even tough it should go straight, just straight up slowed to 10kph in a Tunnel where speed limit was 50, and there were blind corners because of “bad vision conditions” even the cruise control was annoying, it felt like my steering input was basically just a “suggestion” that i sometimes really had to force through against the will of the car because otherwise bad shit would’ve happened… Sports mode steering made that only slightly better in the dual motor Model Y
Overall I enjoyed driving the ID3 more actually… at least that had solid and responsive steering that felt - compared to the Tesla - like driving a sports car… and i’ve driven the ID3 directly after the Tesla.
Only good thing about the Tesla was acceleration.
Lol, ok. Your anecdotal experience can totally be believed over all the data gathered over years. Great. Thanks.
