Windows is shit, but the days where you have to do configuration if you don’t use some obscure notebook in one of the most used linux distros is over. I’d say gnome e.g. is pretty close to macos UI wise. There is also Hackintosh if you can’t live without it.
As for why I particularly hate apple:
- Bizarre pricing for comparably low tier Hardware (although not really comparable since apple makes their own ARM silicone)
- Bad repairability, including flimsy collabs to produce some overpriced block of metal just to change an jphone battery lol
- Walled garden / closed ecosystem. Blocking third party apps for users “security”. All this green bubble / blue bubble bullshit.
- productivity and design wise alright machines, but utter trash when it comes to gaming.
There are surely more / other points to make.
Arch Linux Desktop for coding and gaming, MacBook for mobile productivity. Best of both worlds.
I know with 100% certainty that if my MacBook did a thing last week, it will do it tomorrow. No lost files due to updates, no weird crashes, no ads, no candy crush. If I’m out somewhere, that reliability is worth the premium. And, at least on Mac computers, you can unlock the walled garden if you really need to.
There is no use case for windows in my workflow. Might not be true for everyone though.
I know with 100% certainty that if my MacBook did a thing last week, it will do it tomorrow.
You would be wrong. They disabled gigabit ethernet in 2012/203 iMacs/Minis with an OS update, 100mbps only after that. They broke PTP for Android phones with an OS update.
That’s only iOS, and I’ve heard that EU’s trying to put an end to that. Third party apps works fine with macOS; never once have I even touched the app store, only Homebrew. I do agree that the lack of control and freedom you have is egregious, especially for such an expensive device, there really should be an toggle to turn all of that restriction off for those who knows what they’re doing. I’m also pessimistic about the future of macOS given the absolute bullshit Apple’s been pulling with iOS. I can only hope Asahi Linux gets feature parity with macOS by the time they do the same with macOS, else I’ll have to sell my M1 MacBook and get something else, and that’s a shame because despite less-than-ideal OS, the hardware is amazing.
They don’t contribute code back to the community and make billions in profit to the detriment of furthering the human species with their concentration of wealth and minimal innovation (since Jobs died).
That’s not true. Some examples: WebKit LLVM clang Anything here: https://github.com/Developer-Ecosystem-Engineering
You mean like their recent Wine patches, which they trough over the fence instand of working with the community? WebKit was forked AFAIK for open source projects etc. Perhaps Apple conforms to the letter of the law, but they for sure don’t play nice to the spirit of OpenSource. Finally: Given what they borrowed from the *BSDs, I don’t see Apple being a contributor to the *BSDs in any way.
I don’t care what anyone says. On a user level MacOS is by far the best ready to go experience. I love using Linux Mint and I wish I would use it full time to be free of corporate OS’s. But that’s not the case and Mac is well ahead in my eyes.
Just to be clear, because the following could be misunderstood when posted alone: I’m not looking for an argument, use whatever you prefer. I’m just curious.
What use cases do you have that aren’t available (or take lots of configuration) on Mint?
Thanks for asking. Unfortunately I’m stuck using certain Adobe apps. There are Linux alternatives but I work with clients and external parties so working files need to be shared. So can’t risk compatibility or even drive format issues.
Plus hardware wise apple really hit it out of the park with apple silicon. I’d love to see the desktop gpu race move towards efficient even a little bit to tempt me.
Gotta give credit where credit’s due.
I am literally forced to use Apple at work. I can life with an iPhone, because I use it just for its intended, dumped down usage and I overcame the annoyance about Apples fascism (alternative web engine). If you are not able to automate 100% of your setup on a proper UNIX machine, please do the programming community a favor and switch your line of work. Apple is such a shit show: no keyboard driven workflow w/o extensive customization, how the fuck can I automate 100% of the the setup/customization, why the fuck do I have to upgrade every fucking single program interactively with a click, why are the package managers homebrew and macports as shitshow like Linux 25 years ago, why is macOS so bloated and fucking slow on a machine, why is the development experience for mac worse than Visual Studio 6 (!), Finder is such a sad joke compared to file managers on every other OS or DE, why can I not easily enable transparent file compression when I am a grown up user etc etc etc. Seriously, macOS is nice for consumers with too much money. The literally only thing macOS does which I envy is the tag system which works. Don’t get me wrong, Linux is also a shit show, but compared to macOS it is like the best thing ever.
@railsdev @idk837384 It’s the price, right? People shit on it for its price. You didn’t mention price once! Lol
Isn’t the whole Macs don’t get viruses thing a myth by this point?
There are a lot more sources for random untrustworthy Windows software than there are for MacOS but that’s on the user the same way keeping your OS up to date is.
Nothing is secure anymore, and it makes sense. The reason there are less apple hacks (anything I’m the ecosystem is susceptible) is by keeping things proprietary and their relative obscurity. There have been hacks on Mac’s, iPhones, but also Linux, android, and of course windows.
I agree but I feel like the obscurity aspect faded out with the I’m a Mac and I’m a PC ads
My dude, if you find you need to “babysit” Fedora or Ubuntu, I’m kind of doubting your tech literacy - i.e the basic level of tech literacy you need to operate macOS or Windows with.
And also, just because something is UNIX doesn’t make it good. Shout outs to HPUX.
Also, Apple is tracking you on macOS and iOS, similarly to Google and Microsoft. They call it telemetry, but are you SURE they don’t collect identifying information and canvas you?
Several reasons:
- Almost all of their products target the high end market (and even then, they are known to make stupid decisions to cut off high end use cases).
- OSX tends to be opinionated on certain settings and it is hard (or impossible) to change them.
- Many of the built in software only work if you exclusively use Apple products.
- Apple simps.
Really? Back on Reddit, every time I said something about Apple, I get at least 5 comments saying how “that isn’t a problem”, “lol you have no idea” and things like that.
Especially the head. phone. jacks. Oh my, the mental gymnastics were unforgettable.
Because they’re such a heavily walled garden.
It’s great for my parents who know nothing about technology and computers. They just need to go online and check emails and social media.
It’s mainly the terrible anti-consumer decisions of Apple that everyone dunks on, such as lack of repairability, lack of consumer choice, charging a fortune to change a single $1 chip, and being unable to run programs downloaded from anywhere but the app store.
being unable to run programs downloaded from anywhere but the app store.
I agree with everything else you said but this is just flat out incorrect.
From my experience with people that are very pro Android vs the pro iOS crowd, it’s just that they’re trying to justify their own choice by uplifting the OS they chose and sometimes tend to focus only on the negatives of the other OS. The same can be said for the various desktop OS crowds.
I’ve used both Android and iOS, as well as Windows and MacOS (and intend to try Linux at some point) over the years and I never thought one was generally better than the other. All these OSs have different target users and that’s ok. Just because you’re not the target user for OS A, doesn’t mean that OS B is objectively the best OS for everyone. It’s just the best OS for you. And why people feel the need to bash other people’s choices or even make fun of them for it is beyond me.
One doesn’t “get privacy”, privacy can’t be bolted on. One starts with full privacy and then begins losing it to bad decisions, like choosing an inauditable OS that phones home and everything.
macOS is fine, for now, but with the direction Apple is going right now with all the spyware they’re putting on iOS, I’d rather start using something else than get caught off guard when they start doing the same with macOS. I still have a MacBook, but I’ve long since switched to using Linux as my main system, so when the day comes and Apple decides to install spyware on macOS, I can ditch it in a heartbeat without shedding a single tear. Also, I’m not a big fan of the lack of options and customisability on macOS. I get that it’s meant to help non-tech-savvy people so that they don’t break their system, but at least make a toggle that’s lets you turn all of that off for those who knows what they’re doing.
Lastly, Linux distros like Fedora or Mint is very easy to use, and at least in my opinion, entirely negates the argument that “Linux is hard”. It’s only as difficult as you want it to be. The only major roadblock is support for common proprietary apps, and while I don’t usually use them, I’ve heard that they’ve become far better recently. As a cherry on top, it’s lighter and, best of all, has no spyware.
Every time I offer similar views the responses I get are somewhere along the lines of
But you can run Linux on windows! You can install most of the same tools on windows Just run everything in docker anyway
I’ve been coding most of my life. Usually people don’t understand just how sucky the tool chains are on windows when you step into certain dev work.
If I ever have to setup multiple python virtual envs again I’ll fucking just quit. Pipenv. Virtualenv. Poetry. Every fucking one on windows has been riddled with bugs
Windows isn’t afraid of tech, but MacOS is? Give me a break, the Unix style terminal is the reason for using MacOS professionally.
Honestly, most windows users I know at least know where their files are stored and stuff like that. Average Mac users don’t know if something is synced with the cloud or not and can’t unpack a rar archive without calling support because they are deliberately kept dumb by that restrictive, overly oppinionated, lock-in OS and unrepairable, un-upgradable hardware ecosystem. I’m using linux as daily driver on laptop and desktop for almost a decade now and I hate windows with a passion, but mac manages to be even worse. Although windows is also getting worse with every version since win7, so they might be on par soon…
The rar example was pretty random because I encountered that once. Also, I have t admit that I also know windows users who haven’t got the tiniest clue what they are doing. I just feel like it’s even worse on mac because the OS is more oppinionated and tends to hide even more complexity from its users without actually solving it. Windows also has got some horrendous default settings btw., e.g. hiding file extensions in explorer and searching through documents content when using the explorer search bar.
Depends on the person. Most of the people I know who use MacOS, use it as a glorified Facebook machine. Outside of perhaps Word, they only use the web browser.
In my circles it’s used exclusively for software engineering. Mostly by people who like Linux but don’t wanna deal with any instability brought by customizing your install.
To quote a designer friend of mine ‘Apple is the king of average’. :-P Most people I see using apple don’t even understand how shitty the UI is if your workflow is keyboard driven (snap windows w/o 3rd party programs for example.)
I’m not sure if my experience is any kind interesting or not, but here goes. This is coming from the perspective of a software engineer.
After using Windows for a few years, I switched to macOS for several years before needing to use some Windows-only software and switching back.
I always hated using iPadOS, and for a long time, I assumed this was primarily due to the lack of windowed applications (as well as the lack of software that was truly competitive with Windows/macOS offerings, at least at the time).
On the other hand, my experience with macOS is just the opposite. As soon as the feature was introduced, I started using applications exclusively in fullscreen whenever possible. This is partially the fault of macOS’s vanilla window system being unhelpful in several regards, but that doesn’t explain why I now miss it on Windows.
Yes, I know Windows now implements comparable multitouch gestures, but in my experience, it is terrible to use. The scroll speed is far too fast and cannot be changed independently, AFAIK. And maximized applications still have to choose between a persistent window border and a borderless mode that comes with its own pitfalls. I really don’t like it, but I still use alt+tab 99% of the time, just like I did on XP and 7.
I think the root of the problem is that you can only physically look at one thing at a time, but fullscreen applications work best in multitasking when the time spent switching windows (including the time spent consciously thinking about it) is minimized. iPadOS sometimes takes longer and the gesture is uncomfortable to perform on a tablet. Windows gets it wrong in how much you have to keep an eye on it. macOS, in my opinion, gets it just right.
Yeah this used to be the case up until the early 2000s. Then Microsoft started making Windows much less technical (e.g. instead of showing Error: HRESULT 0x80070002 it just showed Sorry, something went wrong :(). Conversely, Apple started exposing more tooling for MacOS, e.g. tracing, terminal, etc. instead of just showing <bomb picture> if something went wrong.
Do you play PC games?
Yes
Do you care about privacy?
Yes
LOL get fucked
Maybe relevant 10 years ago, but not anymore. Hell, most games run better with Proton now, no background telemetry crap.
I tried running FNV on my home PC through Proton and it was basically a PowerPoint presentation. My Windows partition can run FNV just fine, even with a game-breaking number of mods. I’m sure I’m doing something wrong, as I’ve heard that FNV works well in WINE. I’m on Debian in case anyone wants to dunk on my shit help me out.
You can install Steam on Linux. In fact I have 2 PCs in my house for my sons. They run Windows games flawlessly. See for compatibility in the ProtonDB.
See the thing is, when you use Windows you don’t need a compatability list.
lol, yeah somebody really hates Macs… I work in tech, and lots of my colleagues also use Mac, I love my Mac…
I wouldn’t say I’m that techy and I recently jumped over to Linux Mint from Windows because it has the C-compiler gcc pre-installed and it’s UNIX seems to be a better experience for programming. It was easy to install, I find I’m going back to Windows less and less. I used to use Photoshop a lot, now I’m just using Krita. I’m lovin it so far. Only games are a problem maybe, although the game I play has a linux version, I just can’t be bothered loading yet.
Linux Mint is supposed to be the easy for-the-layman Linux distro and that’s been my experience so far - everything has worked, no issues.
I wouldn’t say I’m that techy
I really like the C-compiler and general programming experience
Yeah, okay, I am a little bit techy, but so far I haven’t had to employ any of my limited techy abilities in Linux Mint. I didn’t even notice I was using it more, it just happened over a few months that I was finding there was no need to go back to Windows. To load programs on Linux Mint I just google “How to load program X on Linux”, and there will be a page saying, type “sudo apt install <program_name>” in Terminal and it always works and I’m done. (I’m a beginner programmer who was told to try Linux for the Unix stuff) .
If you’re a gamer, I would look up any discussion of gaming in Linux - that would be my only proviso.
I think the argument boils down to: Can a person who writes down their passwords in excel and calls chrome “the internet” use it. The answer is not yet. It’s better than it used to be but they is still a lot of work to be done. Typing commands in terminal is an actual non starter for my parents. In fact I would argue I don’t want them to be typing any sudo commands in terminal they got from the internet.
