The fun part is that the democrats are neither
You either vote for the Bad Party, vote for the Very Bad Party, or organize a coup to overthrow the government and install a political class which frees the US from the two-party system and maybe implements ranked choice voting too.
The third option seems kinda hard, so what you gonna do?
Last time that worked in a first-world country was over 200 years ago. And I’m pretty sure Louis XVI didn’t have 30% of the population hailing him as a god and putting his face on shirts.
You can organize and pull up a movement but I heavily doubt you’ll manage one big enough in the next 14 months, so what you gonna do at the election? Stay home and let Very Bad Party win, possibly strengthening the power of state military and making a revolution even harder?
That third option sounds like 4 steps forward, three steps back
Overthrow the government in order to… change just one thing about how the government works??
How about we overthrow the government, gut the whole thing and rebuild it with the proletariat in charge, and let it wither away once class is abolished
Changing the way future governments are elected is the most important thing. That way people can actually vote for what they like and not for what they dislike less.
Then once that’s in place stuff will definitely get better unless the whole country is stupid and reelects people who bring back the old system.
Not to mention, “the proletariat in charge” is a very utopic system and no country ever managed to successfully put it in place. The proletariat in charge of actually deciding who’s in charge is already more feasible.
Didn’t the Democrats just get free pre k in Colorado? You NEVER see Republicans wanting to do this. I am sure Republicans right now are trying to stop this free schooling for kids that helps working class people.
Stop voting for Republicans. They are Un-American and not for our democracy.
First, I’m not American and thus have an outside perspective of how shitty your politics are
Second, since when is having an opposition party against democracy? After all, you can only have one. If you removed the only opposition party you have you’d get the opposite of a democracy
Lmfao I’m pretty sure liberals also hate the working class, watch them talk about rural people for 5 seconds. The utter disdain for rural working class people is a real thing.
You seem to be implying that the only “real” working class people are rural. Do all the working class folks that live in the burbs and cities not count?
That’s not what I meant to imply at all, but generally there are more blue collars than white out in the sticks. Do you think that’s inaccurate?
I would argue that used to be the case. My parents own a “farm” in Indiana, and most of their neighbors were indeed farmers and farmhands when I was growing up 30 years ago. I’ve visited the farm recently, and was shocked by the gentrification that has happened. None of their neighbors are worth less than $1,000,000 these days. All the old neighbors are gone. The population density didn’t increase, but the prices did, and the price of gas makes it impossible for low paid blue collar workers to live that far out of town. They wouldn’t be able to get groceries.
That may even still be the case west of the Mississippi River, but back east property has gotten so expensive that even the rural areas are turning into havens exclusively for the rich/ wealthy
Liberals and progressives are frustrated with many rural conservatives. Changes we advocate not only help us, our neighbors, the less-advantaged, but would even more benefit rurals. Why are you voting against your best interests, and for the blowhard who more blatantly lies, and wants to “take” more from you in favor of the wealthy? Why would you vote for those vowing to disrupt and destroy many of the programs you rely on? Why do you keep voting for the country to step backwards when you’re the first one getting stepped on?
So I felt like I had helped pushing debt relief forward in the US, hope that is okay with you folks here.
And I would agree with the image. But can I be risky and question some things? I can delete my post if people don’t like it.
But, Ok regarding tax increases on wealthy and corporations: won’t they just find loopholes? Heck wasn’t the tax rate raised to like 80% for the wealthy as one point in the US?
I would prefer if culture steps away from tax the rich to either simplify tax rules or remove loopholes, which I would think both sides of voters in the US would be happy for? (Assuming both sides hate the current tax system)
Or assuming politicians are in in the loopholes too, making the tax easier or the loopholes more complicated that labor wise it would be better to just pay taxes?
Sorry… why do you think people on the left wouldn’t be in favor of removing tax loopholes for rich people?
Sorry I didn’t intend to bring sides into this, I am referring to the super rich and poor. Not left or right. Is that okay?
I think both voters on both sides would be in favor of removing tax loopholes. But I imagine the wealthy on both sides would be hesitant?
Assuming if you are super rich that takes priority over political parties. Would the Military Industrial Complex be a similar example?
The wealthy are only on one side- their own. The aren’t left or right, they’re just greedy hoarders. Their ideology goes as far as their wallet. They give to politics to get their way and they give to charities to get tax write-offs.
Oh another Q I had was the student debt relief.
Isn’t student debt relief just a short term fix? Yes debt relief is something I would vote for, but Like that money has to go somewhere right? Wouldn’t it be better to lower the cost of the out of control education or health care first to make it easier to provide more affordable universal care in the future?
Unless other country with universal care charge $20 for a cough drop at the distributor level for hospitals, then disregard my statement 😄
Why not give people student debt relief and make college free and have universal healthcare? It’s not like you have to pick one.
Yes, forgiving student loans can realistically only be a one time fix, but:
— most of these are for a previously existing forgiveness program that was managed so poorly no one could qualify
— halting payments as part of COViD relief while continuing to accrue interest means that some people are getting hit with ballooning payments after year of none
But of course the real problem is how to get college education costs back under control. They have been going up much faster than inflation for decades, making a good education much harder to afford than for the rich devious generation
— a big part of this is reduced state spending on education, so public school costs go up as fast as private. States need to start investing more in public universities again. Top tier private schools will always command any price but most private schools would need to compete if public universities were affordable
— some states are starting to offer some amount of college free
Because current measures only make rich people flee elsewhere, which moves the tax burden to the middle class, which becomes poorer due to this and other factors, and then we have a few rich guys living elsewhere and a poor mass
There’s actually proof that the rich won’t flee at all. This is a myth.
Flee where exactly? If this were national, they’d have to flee the country. And good riddance to them and their hoarding. They improve nothing.
Edit to tldr: one of the richest men in the world “ paid a total tax rate of 17.7%, the average tax rate for people in his office was 32.9%.”
— No one is advocating for the old days with 90% tax on the wealthy. We all know that won’t work
— we have a progressive tax, meaning wealthier pay a higher rate, which is good. However many “tweaks” have eroded that so it’s no longer as true. Most people just want to undo those tweaks
— There are multiple tax brackets so you pay a higher percentage as you earn more. I do earn more than average so I pay more, fair. But I’m far from wealthy, so why am I in the highest tax bracket? Why do the Elon Musks of the world pay the same rate on income as my upper middle income?
— our income taxes are more complex than people realize, but many tax cuts of the last few Republican administrations have been for sources of income that mostly benefit the wealthy. Why is my salary income taxed at such a high rate compared to Elon Musk’s capital gains income?
— why do I pay taxes on all my income while a well known real estate grifter can incorporate hundreds of times and play shell games with his money, and claim to be both a billionaire with huge income AND writing off all that income as a business loss to avoid taxed
— but this fiasco really tells the story. How is it that when even one of the wealthiest thinks it’s unfair, we keep doing it? https://www.fool.com/taxes/2020/09/25/why-does-billionaire-warren-buffett-pay-a-lower-ta/
So the next question is what can be done, like today, where can I go who should should I contact other than my usual reps?
How do you think loopholes creep into the tax laws? It’s done by politicians who accept bribes from lobbyists who work for the mega corporations and the ultra wealthy. Yes those kind of politicians are in both camps. But one side is full of them and the other is slightly less full of them. Vote for better politicians and show up to every election even the local ones. That’s how you can put a “radical” into power who might want to do something about the current system. And those “radicals” aren’t a member of the Republican Party.
Both sides are not the same. Republicans are the ones who don’t want to help the workers and lower/middle class. Tax the rich and the big business. Make public college free, make healthcare free, make child care free. How? Tax the rich and big businesses. They have hoarded all the money we generated for them. (They are using it to create space ships for fun and buying up EVERYTHING). If they want to do business in the USA tax them. Stop voting for republicans, they don’t care about our democracy. Get more liberal justices on the supreme court to fix what republicans have done to our rights. Money shouldn’t be speech and corporations are not people.
I’m sure that Republicans right now are trying to stop student debt relief, again. Stop voting for them. They have no policies to help the workers. Only tax cuts for the rich and hate, i.e. woke, i.e. minorites, LGBT, women, non Christains, and diversity.
There is one party that’s literally, not metaphorically, trying to get student debt relief. And reproductive rights. Other isn’t.
They say that and do nothing when it’s slapped down. Do you honestly think they care about that? It’s like a fucking abusive relationship where they tell you what you want to hear, spend one day doing said thing and then completely drop it until you kick up a fuss at election time, then they say more words you like to hear and dont follow it up with any action. rinse and repete. Republicans are such an easy scapegoat, and you lick it up like the good little dem you are.
Like at some point you have to realize that they won’t do what you want. They’re full of fucking air.
Remind me cuz I seem to have forgotten which party recently busted up a union strike, which one refused to repeal Trump’s tax cuts for the wealthy, and worked directly with McConnell to make the bush tax cuts for the wealthy permanent, who was the one that forced for profit health care system on us and then mandated everyone participate? Which one was it? That should have gone through the higher education act to eliminate student debt but followed a route that was destined to fail? Which one is it that is now overfunding cops to the extent of pushing and funding cop city in Atlanta, to further subjugate minority communities, which party passed a far overreaching crime bill that specifically targeted black males, and the for-profit prison system that he’s used to house them in? Which party had the crime bill that was so restrictive that it went too far for even Reagan, and he had to insert it into the violence against women act so people would not vote against it, which party was that?
No, no, see, we should just roll over and take all that with our asses up because they’ll maybe try and throw a measly attempt at giving us back federal abortion rights and student loan forgiveness, maybe. And they can’t do anything but give up if the Republicans slap any of that down. “oh well, we tried! But now we’re busy starting proxy wars and throwing our young men and women into decade-long wars, so stfu and take what we give you and be thankful for it.”
"Oh,it’s election time? No, no, don’t withhold your vote from us, if you do that, abortion will be federally banned this time around, probably! Listen, we’ll do you a solid and attempt to throw another half-assed bill at the Republicans. Yeah, they’ll slap it down, and no, we won’t push back or anything, we’ll be too busy funding more wars that we don’t call wars, but, you know, at least we’re better than them. So be a good little removed and roll over and stick your ass up.
Inb4: “BoThSiDeIsM” and “nAzI!!!”
What should the Democrats do? Pass legislation with 48/100 senate votes (first two years) or without control of the house (now)? Pass things unconstitutionally via executive order and hope that the ideologicaly opposed supreme court allows their illegal action to slide? Should they tear the whole thing down and install a dictatorship like Trump wants to do?
Start holding individual representatives accountable for their actions and votes. Not one republican was willing to cross party lines to put their country first, yet people like you blame the politicians who tried to help and either withhold the votes they need to get stuff done or outright give their votes to the party whose platform is literally to harm us.
All concessions to Republican control. Don’t blame the party stopping progress, blame the progressives. What a joke.
I blame the party, they are the ones in control, or in most cases, not in control. They are shit for governing while blaming everyone but themselves for incompetence.
You right, let’s get rid of all the conservatives from the Democrat party.
I’m all for it
That would result in the elimination of the DNC, which Im all in favor of
For anyone that wants to really know exactly what the conservatives plan to do against the American people, read their ”Project 2025: Mandate for Leadership."
At least read the Forward, but here’s the whole PDF:
https://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/project2025/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf
The rhetoric just in the Forward is frightening, disgusting, and dangerous.
We MUST vote for the Democrats if we’re going to maintain any semblance of real freedom for everyone and not just conservative white people.
Bruh. I’m so fuckin sick of this 2 party bullshit.
“We Must vote for the Democratic party”
How about no. Fuck the Democratic & Republican party.
But you’re supposed to pick a side and be willing to literally lay down your life for them and their cause! Ra ra, go team go. Otherwise you’re just part of the problem according to either side.
I agree with you and I’ll go a step further and say fuck all politicians in general. Today, they’re all owned in some way by the money that puts them in power. They’ll all tell you what you want to hear. They’re all experts in half truths. Never trust a politician.
Politicians are owned by their constituents, who they overwhelmingly vote in alignment with.
The whole “politicians are owned” thing just doesn’t show up in any data whatsoever.
So what’s your plan to stop the US from turning into Gilead? Wear lots of black clothes and whine about it?
I can’t speak for the previous commenter, but I know that not voting for either party is my plan. Everyone that votes out of fear of “the bad one getting elected” is part of the problem. How about something you can vote for instead of something you’re voting against?
I’m sick of the two party system also but also recognize that’s the system in place. Requires voting reform for that to ever change, which I support. I’m still going vote for democrats in the meantime because anything else, to include third party or abstaining, is ultimately supporting the republicans whether one wants to admit it or not.
If enough people, 5% of the population, voted 3rd party in one election, it gives the 3rd party the ability to get on the ballot in every state. This goes a long way.
Neither side wants ranked choice voting. Neither side is going to give up power.
We have to vote something different to change the 2 party system. Not going to change itself.
I’m not American, but reading the Foreword was just plain scary to me since it comes from a major party. There’s nothing about economics and all about moral outrage. You guys need to diversify your parties somehow.
(Side note, I found it hilarious that the “Forward” felt like it was 1000 pages down. And reading that much BS made me feel gross.)
Ok so, the Project 2025 thing is terrifying. Their Forward is terrifying. They have no plan for making this country better for anyone except themselves. They state very clearly they want to delete anything they don’t like.
They want to ban books and open discussions.
They want to deny racism exists or ever existed.
They want to deny that biology exists outside of their narrow minded beliefs.
They want to force a single religion on everyone.
They cite problems and point the finger at everyone except themselves.
As if it wasn’t abundantly clear at this point based on their ACTIONS what Republican rule will be… And yet we still have millions of people fully invested in that cult of hate and fear.
