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An idling gas engine may be annoyingly loud, but that’s the price you pay for having WAY less torque available at a standstill.
I’ll keep my ICE and ride a bike. I’ll still do less environmental damage than you because I am human powered for all but the trips to the mountains, and then I don’t have to worry about being stranded without a plug.
And I have yet to hear a convincing argument that taking my perfectly working vehicle off the road to buy another manufactured product is still more environmentally friendly than… not buying anything at all.
I don’t give a fuck about initial torque. I’m going to be laughing in my wheetabix when there’s not a single EV older than a decade on their original batteries.
Downvotes don’t make me wrong, chuds.
You open up your profile, click the little gear icon and then go to graphs.
It should be right between the amount of murders you committed, and the amount of times you shit your pants in public.
Holy fuck, this can’t be right - mine says I’m responsible for millions of deaths! In the future!
What do we do?!
Pretty easy to make a comparison to the average American. It’s like BMI – it’s bigger than the individual and not a metric useful for individual comparison.
Drivers reported making an average of 2.44 driving trips, spending 60.2 minutes behind the wheel, and driving 30.1 miles each day in 2022. Projecting these results to all drivers nationwide, 255 million drivers made a total of 227 billion driving trips, spent 93 billion hours driving, and drove 2.8 trillion miles in 2022, all of which represented small but not statistically significant decreases relative to 2021.
I average 0 miles a day driving.
Please tell me how you know that the people you are talking to on Lemmy are all average Americans. Or even Americans.
Approximately nobody is saying you should sell your 2020 compensator for scrap, in fact the general consensus is that the best thing you can do is keep your current ride in good repair as long as you can.
You don’t have to invent boogeyman just because you have a weird parasocial relationship with big oil.
I’m going to be laughing in my wheetabix when there’s not a single EV older than a decade on their original batteries.
You lost this one the instant you posted the comment.
https://www.pcmag.com/news/how-long-do-ev-batteries-last-study-says-longer-than-you-think
This excludes major battery recalls, such as the Chevy Bolt and Hyundai Kona.
Boy… if all those 2010 Leafs are still on the road, why can’t I find any used for sale??
It’s almost like they didn’t do any investigative work and just regurgitated a Nissan spokesperson. It’s fucking Forbes after all.
So two strikes to you. Wanna try again?
And I have yet to hear a convincing argument that taking my perfectly working vehicle off the road to buy another manufactured product is still more environmentally friendly than… not buying anything at all.
That’s because nobody is making that argument. The only statement I’ve ever heard from environmentalists/scientists is that the most beneficial thing to do is keep your old ICE car and maintain it well.
I certainly know of some “get rid of your car and bike everywhere” environmentalists, but most of them realize that isn’t actually an option in, for example, rural Montana in February.
Yeah, at least they’re sticking to their ideals and their suggestion would help the environment. But as you pointed out, it just won’t/can’t happen in much of the US.
In fact, I just recently went on a road trip from Pennsylvania to Tennessee that took me through parts of West Virginia, Ohio, and Kentucky. I can’t think of any places I saw where public transportation would be feasible. Maybe long-distance trains to augment air travel as an option, but nothing last-mile.
I saw more signs about reasons god might send me to hell, or how Trump is awesome, than any form of public transit. Even buses. Because I saw zero of any of it.
Not sure if this was a thing anywhere else but in some UK cities like London there were “scrappage schemes” that incentivised scrapping your car to replace it with something more efficient, which I always thought was missing the point
We had that in the US too, commonly called “cash for clunkers.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_Allowance_Rebate_System
But I think it was really more about the economic stimulus than the environmental impact. But I’m sure the environmental side helped justify it.
Gas engines have decent range. Gas engines are cheaper (as the electric engine prices are artificially inflated, just look at Chinese prices), with gas engines you can listen to the sound of the engine to diagnose problems before they occur, batteries don’t degrade (you still have car batteries, but when they degrade, you can still drive a car for as long as with the new battery. You can refuel it in a couple of seconds. Anyone can make one sided arguments. There isn’t a best thing for everything.
Your argument is with electric cars vs ice cars. xkcd likely specifically was talking about engines just so all the range arguments don’t work. It’s just engine vs engine and there electric is far superior.
That’s like saying a sword is a better weapon than a gun because the sword can bei used for cutting, hitting und thrusting and also as a tool while the gun can only hit and shoot while needing additional components to function that quickly run out while being more complex to build. You cant just ignore the context to make your argument. He’s clearly talking about cars here.
I mean, could easily be talking about lawn mowers, which also have gas and electric and arguable more priority for torque generation.
Range anxiety is largely a perception thing. The vast majority of car journeys are well within the range of an EV, you just need to get in the habit of plugging in like you would your phone. For journey’s long enough for it to be more than a single charge you really should be stopping for more than a few seconds anyway as you need recharging.
After all, it’s recommended to stop before reaching 400 km or 3 hours. And now EVs have that range or close to it.
Okay, but it is still jumping through hoops which doesn’t exist with gas cars. What if I have 3 people driving, like in a road trip? You can’t continuously drive after refueling anymore. It isn’t just a perception thing, it absolutely requires planning and stops you wouldn’t take otherwise.
jumping through hoops which doesn’t exist with gas cars.
You have to physically drive to a different location to get petrol. That’s a hoop. Just because you’re used to it doesn’t mean it’s not there.
What if I have 3 people driving, like in a road trip? You can’t continuously drive after refueling anymore. It isn’t just a perception thing, it absolutely requires planning and stops you wouldn’t take otherwise.
It is a perception. The vast majority of trips this won’t be an issue. In the once in a bluemoon that you’ll be driving more than the range of the car, yes, it could be. This is where it’s perception. People seem to think that they’ll run commuting to work or half the journeys they take will be affected. Whereas it’s really really rare.
You jump through all sorts of hoops with gas cars. We’ve all made it part of the habits of our lives and don’t think about them, but they’re absolutely there.
You’re arguing in favor of quickly swappable batteries.
China’s got your back.
https://hbr.org/2024/05/how-one-chinese-ev-company-made-battery-swapping-work
you just need to get in the habit of plugging in like you would your phone
Yeah but not everyone lives in suburbia with ample plug-in options available to them. Where I live the street-side charging spots are usually occupied, and the parking spot that I rent has no charging.
For journey’s long enough for it to be more than a single charge you really should be stopping for more than a few seconds anyway as you need recharging.
True to some extent, I have to check my travel logs but I do feel like stopping for an hour every 300km or so is longer and much more often than I would normally stop on long road trips. My (diesel) car has a range of well over 1000km so often I stop for only 15 minutes for a coffee and to stretch my legs, or just for a restroom stop and a driver swap. We usually plan just one big stop (1h) for dinner. Most destinations I’ve been to I could reach without refueling at all.
There’s also the issue of contention for charging spots. On gas stations near the big highways towards popular destinations you often already have to queue to get gas. This will become worse when EVs become common place and people occupy a charging spot for an hour instead of a fuel pump for 30 seconds to top up.
Little anecdote: every year around the holiday season, there are several company wide e-mails from EV driving co-workers requesting to swap cars (with a co-worker who has a CE car) to go on holiday. So I think the practical experience may not be as rosy as you paint it.
If you live in the Balkans, you can hardly charge your electric car anywhere and if you go on holidays, It takes way longer, since you have to recharge multiple times and it takes a couple of hours.
Ok, what’s your point? Did I say it’s always and in every single niche scenario people are going to come up with a perception issue? Or did I in fact say it’s largely (as in most of the time and in most cases) a perception issue?
In which world electric motors are more expensive than combustion engines?
The EV motors are cheaper but we need to include the battery. An empty gas tank does not cost much. An uncharged car battery is pretty expensive.
The reason why you may be able to diagnose an ICE by sound is because they’re complex. That’s not a positive. An electric motor has just a few moving parts. If it goes bad you don’t really need to work to figure it out and fix it.
The rest of the arguments can be made, but as you imply they’re disingenuous. The sound one is just not a benefit at all.
At a stretch, I guess you could say that a battery that’s going bad doesn’t make a sound.
But yes, electric motors are way more reliable than internal combustion engines and objectively superior. You would never use an ICE over an EE for any application where you have a reliable supply of electricity.
I was apprehensive about EVs but the first time I rode in one I immediately fell in love with it. I get carsick easily, and the super-smooth ride without the chug-chug-chug of an internal combustion engine made the experience surprisingly much more pleasant for me. I do not use a car, but if I had to buy one, I don’t think I could ever stomach an ICE again knowing that this alternative is available.
just look at Chinese prices
The prices of chinese EVs are artificially deflated! They heavily subsidize their EV manufacturing sector.
As a US citizen I am painfully aware that I could dip down to mexico and buy a competent EV at 35~40k USD value in MXN. Alternatives in the states, even produced here, are upwards of 50k for the poverty model. Maybe the engine itself is cheaper, but the vehicles absolutely are not (unless you are being denied options by your government as part of an ongoing slap fight).
Electric cars is not the solution. Sure, it’s an improvement, but for a real solution you need to get people out of personal vehicles on onto public transportation. Trains, trams, busses, whatever. Build it in a way that doesn’t suck. Assuming american, the US had (past tense) amazing train/tram networks decades ago. Every warehouse had a rail spur, and since walking was considered ok people weren’t obese fatasses.
I drive a scooter. It is possible to live without a car, although it does have some difficulties sometimes. If your job is within 10 miles of your home or less, then you don’t need a car for your commute. If I can do it so can you. I’d still rather take a bus, if it existed.
Gas engine makes good noises. Checkmate.
It’s incredible how certain people are conditioned to think the sound of a gas motor and shifting because your puny motor is out of optimal torque and rpm range are manly.
I’m a car guy and far from manly. I drive a loud annoying stick shift because it’s fun and life is too short to be bored while driving.
Think of the most annoying sound you know. Whether it’s country music, rap, lawnmower before 8am on sat, etc that is your “good noises” sound like.
There is a huge difference between a finely tuned V8 with an appropriate muffler versus a gas lawnmower, but to each there own.
Great username btw
Mr. Monkey subjectively your finely tuned v8 sounds like a 400lb basement dwelling gorilla someone has fed laxatives and recorded from the bottom of a well used coachella porta potty.
Think of the nicest sound you know. A well-tuned instrument performing a delicate melody, a passionate singer performing their heart out, a cacophony of songbirds. That’s what my good noises sound like when done right.
Obviously nobody wants to hear a fart can Honda Civic at 4am, but a fantastically engineered Italian V10 has its own melody that can’t really be replicated otherwise. These examples will be missed, and the survivors will be sought after like a vintage violin.
So total fucking silence? I swear to God it’s like the call to stroke each other off for you guys.
I don’t see how making noise is good. I live in a street that doesn’t get much traffic, but even one car is loud enough to be bothering.
I don’t want to pause my music and conversations just because someone decided that vroom vroom sounds were more important than me hearing literally anything else.
Even more that noise pollution is definitely a thing, and affect both mental health and physical one.
Vehicles making noise actually is good, for pedestrians’ sake, but yeah ICE vehicles make far more than they need to. Some (? many? I’m not sure how standard it is) electric vehicles make a sort of beeping sound for that reason.
If you’re in an area where pedestrians may be crossing the road, traffic should be slow enough to use permeable brick pavers, which increase road noise, help with rainwater drainage, and add a little green to the road if find right.
The majority of sound for cars are not the motor but the wheels compressing air, after I think 50kph, the sound of an ev or a ic is basically the same.
The ioniq 5 N has that covered, evidently: https://youtu.be/DSIguemKIbQ?si=Do2diTJm8-_Hb9Ro
Or playing cards in the wheels
When accelerating my Leaf makes a “woooooooooooOOOOOOOOP” noise I’ve seen described as the “UFO sound”
Tbh I like it a lot more than the vroom of even my motorcycle cuz it’s funny
Yeah, but does it make Oscar Winner Hans Zimmer kind of noises? https://www.bmw.com/en/magazine/innovation/hans-zimmer-individual-drive-sounds-as-identity-for-electric-vehicles.html
Gas engines smell good 🥰
