Sure. When’s the last time they’ve allowed elections to occur, though?

When have you ever tried educating yourself on this topic outside of accepting and repeating the propaganda of those who genocide Palestinians?

Palestine and Palestinians are not permitted a functioning state, including the so-called Palestinian Authority. There was exactly one round of questionable “elections” in the late 2000s following the failed Camp David agreements, the electoral process dictated to Gaza by the UN, but not one allowed to be executed in any remotely fair way due to meddling and destabilization by the occupiers, “Israel”, including wars and invasions during the process. The people of Gaza are refugees and their government, such as it is, is a collaborative relationship between the UN and Hamas, a relationship established by Hamas de facto winning a small guerilla civil war with Fatah with the election they won as words to be misunderstood by Western chauvinists. This is why “Israel”'s genocidal campaign in Gaza heavily targeted UN workers alongside hospitals and schools: they are part of the normal civilian infrastructure responsible for healthcare, aid distribution, etc, and they work alongside Hamas members doing the exact same things but more closely to the people on the ground. There is no process or even just basic societal basis for elections. This is a factionalized struggle for survival. Their democratic progress has been to form solid alliances with other anti-comprador groups and to involve them in governance. And to organize against their occupiers.

Calling them terrorists is using racial “Israeli” propaganda directed at all Palestinians

Nope.

Yep.

You can clearly see I differentiated Hamas from Palestinians.

And “Israel” propaganda also waffles on that line as needed, broad brushing when they can get away with it and being slightly more specific when it suits them. When making a case to, say, Western governments, it will call Hamas, specifically, terrorists. It is intended to be a selectively-applied delegitimizing label. But in casual conversions and domestically, it is used much more broadly and causally but to the same effect. And always racially.

If we go through your comment section, will we find the same knee-jerk labeling of “Israel”, which is infinitely more guilty and more is an occupying oppressor? How about your own country, which likely supports the genocide?

Yes, the Israelis look at all Palestinians as Hamas

The “Israelis” look at Palestinians as subhumans just like other Western settler colonists did to their targets. You are seeing an ongoing settler colonial genocide and following the propaganda of the genociders. Would you have called the Sioux terrorists for opposing their own genocide, fighting the settlers occupying their lands? I think so. Rather than recognize the dramatic difference between the actions and basis for them, the violences at hand, you are allowing yourself to be persuaded by the inconsistent, flattening application of settler propaganda, persuaded to repeat it even while feeling that you’re doing the opposite. This is common with a lack of investigation.

as do many people in the West, but I’m not Israeli nor do I care what they think - so what they think doesn’t matter. There’s no Israeli propaganda in my comment, that’s your assumption based on…?

The misleading and false characterizations of Hamas as simply terrorist. This is an easily recognizable trope.

If your entire argument boils down to “Well you’re saying the same stuff as Israel is so you’re just spreading propaganda” then maybe you don’t have thoughts of your own, it’s all just the opposite of what Israel says.

This is just projection. You’re clearly recycling the logic of (racist) Zionist settler propaganda, I am simply recognizing it for what it is.

Israel is a terrorist state but that doesn’t mean every single thing they say is wrong. Hamas are terrorists, plain and simple. They invoke fear through violence.

All substantial violence invokes fear but somehow you don’t seem to consistently use the language that way. Do some self-interrogation on why that is and what purpose this label is serving in your mind on this topic.

Let me know of all the benefits Hamas has brought to the Palestinian people and educate me.

This is asking me to write quite a bit more than I already have. It would be many comments long. Hamas is the governing body of Gaza, it works with UN aid distribution and expertise to manage the infrastructure of Gaza. The people of Gaza had hospitals and doctors due to Hamas via this system, for example. In addition, Hamas is the only ruling Palestinian body that does not function as compradors like the PA, who assists “Israel” in their oppressions. The existence of a militant resistance to the occupation is in many ways thanks to Hamas - along with smaller militant factions, of course. Imagine how much could be listed re: all aid dispersal, all governance of infrastructure, bureaucratic necessities, militant organizing.

I’m not going to write up this comprehensive history for someone who is not only uncurious, but actively resistant to humility and education. That would be silly. If you are curious you can read books yourself and learn the same things.

Nothing you wrote was educational or convincing.

I do not set my bar for educational or convincing based on your responses so that’s okay. You are already aware that you have not actually investigated this topic and this is just disssembling. I did not have high hopes for you being open about this.

Hamas are still terrorists who are holding their own people hostage.

It’s really funny that you claim to not be blindly repeating Zionist propaganda and then say things like this.

Hamas are still terrorists who are holding their own people hostage.

This is literally Israeli propaganda to blame the occupation, the Apartheid, and the genocide, onto Palestinians who dare to fight for emancipation.

The existence of Hamas, and any armed resistance movement, is directly due to the decades of violence experienced daily under the permanent occupation, the Apartheid State, of Israel. It’s impossible to understand their existence if you don’t understand the lived experience and material conditions they are forced to live under. There is no such thing as a perfect victim when it comes to anti-Colonialist resistance, not for the Vietcong, the IRA, or the ANC either. Can you condemn the violence of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in the same way as the violence of the Warsaw Ghetto?

In the Shadow of the Holocaust by Masha Gessen, the situation in Gaza is compared to the Warsaw Ghettos. The comparison was also made by a Palestinian poet who was later killed by an Israeli airstrike. Adi Callai has also written on the parallels in his article The Gaza Ghetto Uprising and expanded upon in his corresponding video

Adi Callai has also done a great analysis of how Antisemitism has been weaponized by Zionism during its history, as well as an analysis of Franz Fanon and Identity Politics in the context of Colonialism and Anti-colonialism.

Using indiscriminate armed violence against civilians for political goals or under political pretenses is about the most reasonable definition of terrorism I can come up with.

That is not what Hamas does. And by that definition, applied consistently, you would actually need to include most of the groups that Hamas does fight, including “Israel” and its supporting states like the US and Canada. And yet they are rarely named terrorist states, whereas Hamas routinely receives this association by those who live in those countries and help build their materials of oppression. What function do you believe this selective use of language serves?

The application of the label has been racist and chauvinist for ages. Most pick it up by cultural osmosis, not seeing reason to question or investigate it. Now is your opportunity!

I agree that the Palestinians are fully legitimate in taking up arms to fight against the occupier but the Hamas have carried far too many terrorist attacks over a far too long period for us to have any doubts that they are indeed ‘terroristic’ as our friend put it

Such as? How does this compare to “Israel”? The surrounding comprador states? The US? Canada? Do you apply this logic and labeling frequency consistently or as suggested by dominant propaganda?

When First Nations fought against settlers, were they terrorists and similarly illegitimate? What would you think of someone who watched their genocide and spent their focus on villifying militant groups and alleged specific acts with racialized language while using no such emphasis for the much greater volume of such violence to enact genocide? Many indigenous groups have recognized the need to oppose settlers themselves and settlerdom, the people who stole their and their parents’ land and houses and killed their relatives. You simply dismiss such people as terrorists? Without chauvinist glasses of the oppressor you would probably call them freedom fighters.

While it is nice to keep it mind, the fact that they also do other things besides terrorism is not an argument.

Of course it is when the absurd premise is to ignorantly broad brush them with the label. The vast, vast majority of the activities of Hamas cannot be described as terroristic, much more so than their accusers.

Or should we also refrain from calling the Israeli state terrorist because it also does other stuff besides indiscriminately and arbitrarily targeting Palestinians?

Do you call “Israel”, which is infinitely more guilty of this and is itself the settler colonial occupier, a terrorist state at its every mention? Do you jump into conversations to ensure it is understood as such?

“Israel” engages in a genocidal campaign of land theft and ethnic subjugation. Describe the actual acts and see how much value your attempt at labeling possesses in terns of delegitimation.

Hamas uses extremely discriminate violence. Only 3% of the deaths on October 7 were children.

Israel is the Nazi state which uses indiscriminate violence. And the majority demographic killed by Israel are 5 year olds.

Nearly all hostages taken by Hamas were IDF or former IDF. They primarily targeted generals and IDF bases, which thanks to Israel’s Hannibal strategy are interspersed in civilian areas.

Given the number of causalities, Hamas acted, and has always acted, with more valor and more care for civilians than the IDF who are famous for sniping children and reporters.

Resistance is killing those that oppress you, even if they take off their uniform and throw a party next to your concentration camp.

Anything’s possible when you make shit up