This guy is equally trash than Putin

Really? He’s equally as bad as the guy responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths due to invading a few neighbouring countries?

Not denying that Ukraine and Zelensky have their fair share of issues but I reckon saying they’re just as bad as Putin is more than a little bit disingenuous.

Like I mentioned in my other comment, I think that both leaders can and should be criticized independently, a comparison between the two is not useful.

Neither leader is socialist, so in my opinion, neither truly has the best interest of their country’s working class at heart. There could be some observation and speculation about how the possible outcomes of the conflict could promote socialist aims, but that is still independent of both guy themselves.

Does it makes a difference if you kill one person or 100? For charts maybe but you are still a murderer even if you kill a bunch. All politicians have blood in their hands, they don’t fight their wars, we do it for them and we get forced to do it. Ukraine is under martial law, males between 18 and 60 can’t leave the country.

When making a comparison, the difference between the two things you’re comparing do in fact matter.

Do you really think that killing in order to defend yourself and others is the exact same thing as killing in support of ideologies such as fascism or imperialism? Iraqis defending themselves against Americans and Georgians defending themselves against Russians is morally identical to killing children because they speak the wrong language, worship the wrong god, or have skin that’s the wrong colour?

Idk about that - one has tried to get into EU and fight corruption, the other voted to devour his neighbouring country for increasingly petty reasons.

It’s not petty to respond to threats of nuclear annihilation by a fascist Nazi regime next door. Come on now.

What nuclear capability does Ukraine have currently?

None at all. The threat was that they would join NATO and install nukes.

There was no threat made. Even if Ukraine had entered into NATO, NATO had made no noise about stationing nukes in Ukraine. It could well have kept the status of the Baltic states where they don’t have nukes stationed there. There’s really no strategic value to NATO to do so. That was an excuse made up by the Kremlin.

Here you go. There’s also a video of him demanding pre-emptive nukes be used against Russia.

I’d encourage you to expound on this in your original comment, rather than start off with something inflammatory. It doesn’t promote an interesting discussion.

You want me to edit my original comment? I’m not following. Is there something in my comment you take issue with factually?

And how might that one be?

Because from an outsider perspective he seems to be doing alright and anecdotally a Ukrainian man I know says the people around him like Zelenskyy

I’m not going to take a hard stance here cause I don’t think a side by side comparison with Putin is a useful conversation to have, but I want to point out a couple things that may add some nuance to what you’ve heard before.

Since 1991, Ukraine has been in an increasingly precarious geopolitical position, with many differences among it’s population and political leadership about how to proceed. One could argue that Zelensky ended up stuck between a rock and a hard place, but at the end of the day his fumbling around and repeated motions towards joining NATO were bad political moves that nearly forced (kinda, maybe not forced idk) Russia’s hand into a military action. Even if going to NATO was definitively the correct choice (weird thing to think, tbh), he managed doing so incredibly poorly.
Be aware that Ukraine has had a lot of division among the populaton about whether the country should be Western/EU aligned or Russian aligned. There are many historical and cultural reasons for different regions, communities and individuals to have their particular views (like any political stance). Consider that if you spoke with a Ukrainian person somewhere outside of Eastern Europe, and used the English language, they are probably going to have a pro-western, pro-zelensky viewpoint. You probably won’t hear much from Russian speaking Ukrainians who wouldn’t prefer to emigrate to “the West”, and support Ukrainian alignment with Russia.

Having spent SIGNIFICANT time in all parts of ukraine I can safely say they are a varied people. Russian speaking Ukrainians and non Russian speaking I heard numerous pro ussr and pro west ideas. Non of what you said points to zelensky being as bad as or worse than put in. Pretty much everyone likes him regardless of personal political feelings.

Sure, like I said I don’t think it’s really important who is “worse”, it’s not a useful topic of discussion.

I did want to make a couple of counterpoints though

just cause Zelensky is popular, doesn’t necessarily make him a better leader. If we were to do a comparison (which we shouldn’t!) Putin is also widely popular along Russians. In both cases support for a wartime leader is going to rally, especially in Ukraine.
you certainly have infinitely more experience in the country than I do (dividing by zero ofc haha), but wouldn’t you have run into some of the same biases coming in as a foreigner (or foreign-born)? I don’t know your itinerary, and I’m not asking you to share, but the who, when and where is gonna make a difference.
as an example, I was interested in the interviews of the first two people in this video that I saw recently [watch starting at 3:15 till about 20 mins in]: https://youtu.be/drhgjxSJG6M located in the warzone in eastern Ukraine. Both are supportive of the Russian forces and appear to claim that such support in their local area is widespread.

Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/drhgjxSJG6M

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.

Careful with that YouTube channel. Patrick Lancaster may be American, but everything he’s produced recently is essentially pro-Russian propaganda. Many (most?) of his videos are either misleading or staged.

Can you substantiate that? I’m only tangentially familiar with his work. He’s certainly softer on Russia than other sources, but is he doing more than bringing “balance” to the conversation?

Watching the clip I showed, I could suspect that he may be leaving out other interviews he did where people were more pro-ukrainian, but at the same time, the woman in the video claims that about 80% of the town supports Russia, which would line up with what I previously understood about the politics of their region.

I don’t particularly care that much about the guys personal politics, and I haven’t had that much exposure to them, since my only interest so far has been these two interviews which I personally interpret as primary sources. I would in now way claim that these two people speak for anyone besides themselves, but what they both say is loosely backed up by the data I’ve seen.

Plenty of russian likes putin too, they are victim of propaganda. I’m sure these Ukrainians between 18 and 60 who want to leave the country but they can’t don’t like their government much.

I’ve worked with some of them, and as far as I can tell whilst they don’t like the situation they’re in, they want to kick the shit out if Russians (putting it softly) more than they want to escape.

Turns out invading a country can instill some pretty heavy anger in the populace… Who knew?

He brought his country to war for the US to make a bit of money. He’s a traitor to his people. Not only as a Ukrainian but as a Jewish Nazi collaborator.

So, Ukraine was invaded (twice) by Russia with no provocation… but he brought the war? Seems like Russia brought the war and he’s doing right by the Ukrainian people by defending Ukraine.

And by all means, please list all the ways the he is a Nazi collaborator and traitor to the Ukrainian people, with sources please.

Once on invitation of Crimea to save them from the fascist regime and the second time after 8 years of negotiations to try to avoid war, in the face of an ethnic cleansing of its national allies too. Sure, Russia brought the war. Where do you get your information from? The news?

please list all the ways the he is a Nazi collaborator and traitor to the Ukrainian people, with sources please.

The guy is constantly pictured standing with Nazis.

He literally wears Nazi iconography and is leading a country with an ultranationalism rooted in Nazism. Have you never heard the expression “Slava Ukraine?”

So there is overwhelming evidence of ethnic cleansing? I have yet to see any. In the age of cell phones, there would be so much evidence.

I’m sure there are some people in Russia asking the United States to remove the dictator Putin from power… Yet, the United States didn’t invade Russia. You don’t get to just invade a sovereign country because a very small number of people asking.

That’s your evidence of being the Nazi collaborator flags in the background? Ukrainian Insurgent Army fought with the Nazis trying to free Ukraine from the soviets, as some fought with soviets to free Ukraine from the Nazis. Both were fighting to free Ukraine. Finland joined the Nazis, not because they agreed with the Nazis but to fight against the invading soviets.

Sadly there are many places that have neo-nazis, but they are in the minority. Neo-nazis exist in places hurt by the Nazis greatly, like Poland, France, Britain and even Russia.

Here is Putin standing with a Russia Nazi: https://romea.cz/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fromea.cz%2Fapp%2Fuploads%2F2022%2F02%2Futkin.jpg&w=1200&q=75

And you just attack a slogan that basically says victory to Ukraine from the invaders? Now you’re not even trying

So there is overwhelming evidence of ethnic cleansing? I have yet to see any. In the age of cell phones, there would be so much evidence.

What do you think it looks like? You want a picture of the language laws?

Yet, the United States didn’t invade Russia. You don’t get to just invade a sovereign country because a very small number of people asking.

Yeah that’s why they got Ukraine to threaten them and start a war, to “weaken Russia”.

Ukrainian Insurgent Army fought with the Nazis trying to free Ukraine from the soviets,

Ahistorical Nazi apologism now. Look at yourself. Full mask off.

Sadly there are many places that have neo-nazis, but they are in the minority. Neo-nazis exist in places hurt by the Nazis greatly, like Poland, France, Britain and even Russia.

Again, Have you never heard the expression “Slava Ukraine?” It’s not a minority that’s repeating that.

Here is Putin standing with a Russia Nazi

That’s fake. The guy on the left is not the same guy as the one on the right. This has been debunked. It’s one of only two photos in existence like this. The other is a Russian general getting an award wearing a Ukrainian coat with a totenkopf on it. Wherase there are literally thousands of pictures of Ukrainian Nazis.

You’re finished now Adolf.

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