Installing OS, 10 years ago:
Windows: click a couple of buttons enter username and password
Linux: Terminal hacking, downloading shell scripts from github
Installing OS today:
Linux: click a couple of buttons, enter username and password
Windows: Terminal hacking, downloading shell scripts from github.
Link to video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qKRmYW1D0S0
You don’t download shell scripts from github for windows. You download batch scripts and exes from random file hosting sites, and they don’t even fix your problem.
You’ll be lucky if it’s even hosted on random hosting sites and not some discord channel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_(computing)
tldr: batch is a scripting language, which interacts with the windows shell, so in that way it is a shell script.
The post is describing the scripts to disable telemetry, OneDrive, ads, etc.
Talking here about regular x64 OS install not ARM though, have not played with that myself.
Not really, it is usually PowerShell scripts from trusted blogs or in case of local account creation, you run a batch file that is built in installer (oobe\bypassnro) that adds a single registry value. Not sure I would call this hacking. Then again I don’t think Linux 10 years again had problems with account creation as well.
Would be nicer if you could create local account out of the box? Sure. Do some prefer MS account? Also true.
Idk, installing Linux was pretty easy 10 years ago too. Can’t comment about anything earlier than that though.
thinking that the year 2000 was 10 years ago.
This is patently absurd, 10 years ago was 1994.
Even 20 years ago Linux was easier to install then Windows.
Last time I recall Linux being tricky was like late 90s.
Giving you, if you were lucky, VESA graphics and maybe a mouse pointer because XFree86 somehow insisted on being told whether you have a PS/2 or USB mouse. 3d acceleration only with nvidia and that required manual installation because nvidia never provided anything but blobs. IIRC ATI drivers were simply non-existent (didn’t have an ATI card back then), that only changed when AMD bought them. Whippensnappers won’t believe it but once upon the time, nvidia was actually the company to go with when running linux. And Epic didn’t hate Linux yet, UT2004 came with linux binaries on the dvd.
I once tried to install Linux around then, not long after ISA cards with Plug n Play became a thing.
Linux: So now to even pretend to get the card to work you have to download and run a tool to generate a config file to feed to another tool so you can then install the driver and get basic functionality from the card (which is all that’s available on Linux). Except the first tool doesn’t generate a working config file - it generates a file containing every possible configuration your hardware supports hypothetically having and requires you to find and uncomment the one you want to actually use. Requiring you to manually configure the card and thus kinda defeating the point of Plug n Play (though I guess that configuration was in software, not by setting jumpers).
Same card in Windows at the time: Install card, boot Windows. Card is automatically identified and given a valid configuration, built in drivers provide basic functionality. Can download software from manufacturer for more advanced functionality.
That soured me on Linux for a long time. Might try it again sometime soon just to see what it’s like if nothing else. ProtonDB doesn’t have the most positive things to say about my Steam collection, and I imagine odds are worse for stuff not available on Steam.
ProtonDB doesn’t have the most positive things to say about my Steam collection, and I imagine odds are worse for stuff not available on Steam.
If you ask around or search, you can get answers easily. You can install games from Epic, Ubisoft etc. using other Linux applications.
Yeah, all my Linux installs after about 2003 were liveCDs. I used to carry my Gentoo CD around as my diagnostic tools for a while helping people fix their windows machines (or just backing up everything off it before reformatting).
I think Knoppix was the first live CD I used. It was mind blowing. Now you can just carry around a whole personally configured system on a USB stick. Pretty cool.
It hasn’t change since mid-2000s if you only talk about the installation process itself. Usually you would have at least some piece of hardware that wouldn’t work out of box and it used to be a lot of work until getting everything in place
Linux is honestly great, literally the only things holding it back is programs supporting it. I’m painfully tied to a select few windows programs for work and hobbies, Wine tries its best but programs need to start supporting linux before proper adoption can kick off.
Lots more is holding it back, but I’d agree apps is a huge issue.
It’s still has significant issues with being end-user friendly. Needing to use command line for some things that should be a right click, not supporting right click, ambiguities galore when looking at a package repository, odd defaults in packages that one really wouldn’t expect to have to check (e.g. Selecting RDP connection in a Remote app, but it defaults the security to something other than RDP?)
As for apps, there’s problems like Libre Office devs refusing to support tables in the spreadsheet app, saying data management should be done with a database tool. While they’re not wrong, it takes a LOT more effort to setup a DB than to simply click “make table” in excel, which millions of people are familiar with. I create tables every day for run-of-the-mill stuff that simply doesn’t need a database. No one has time for that.
Or you plug in the most prolific wireless mouse on the planet, that’s been around since 2000 (Logitech), and it doesn’t work. Now pick any random piece of hardware and this is the stuff you run into. You go down the rabbit hole of searching for a solution
Or CAD (which falls in your app argument).
Linux is great for many things (things I run, UnRAID, TrueNAS, Proxmox, etc), it’s just not a great general purpose desktop for the average user, yet.
I understand the face value of it, but I really hate the argument of (basically) “Linux isnt going to take off until it just becomes Windows (or emulates it perfectly click for click)”
People always act like Linux is less buttery smooth two click accessible as a style choice, but cranking out a system like that and keeping it up costs money. If Linux dedicated to supporting every dongle on the planet themselves and all this other shiz, they’d have to monetize too.
So much less now needs the terminal. Personally, I don’t get why people don’t mind doing a search to find where windows hid some particular setting 3 submenus deep, but lose their fucking mind over the thought of doing a search to double check which command they need.
Linux doesn’t need to change, people’s priorities need to shift. This obsession with free services and not having to know shit about how shit works is how we got here, and shaking that is the only way out. For example, People will recognize that google is bad but if you point out you can get a domain and basic email hosting for $20/yr or whatever, its always “sucks teeth yeaaaaa but i dont have $20 for something like that and idk how stuff works” conveniently, you dont need to “yeaaaaa, but nooooooo”
Like, I hate cars, but I can’t imagine not knowing how to change a tire or my oil, etc basic stuff, but there are people who call AAA when they get a flat. Its nuts to me.
Linux wont take off until the friction for new users is low enough that the layman can resolve issues without resorting to techniques outside of their understanding and patience. Even as someone who uses linux, there are a ton of things that should have a GUI / just be a context menu entry. If you can get the same amount of work done with a button click rather than typing out a complicated command line string, you might as well use the GUI, right click menu, etc. and make it easier for the typical person. People these days can barely use tablets, and those already dumb things down to icons you tap. Unfortunately, making it accessible to the lowest common denominator is what makes things popular
Personally, I don’t get why people don’t mind doing a search to find where windows hid some particular setting 3 submenus deep, but lose their fucking mind over the thought of doing a search to double check which command they need.
Because they like to believe that the former is how smart computer users do things.
I create tables every day for run-of-the-mill stuff that simply doesn’t need a database. No one has time for that.
It seems that your issue isn’t the lack of tables in sheets but no easy way to create a simple db.
If we want to break Microsoft’s monopoly than we can’t do that by reimplementing Microsoft’s monopolistic ecosystem. And that creates the opportunity to correct questionable and arbitrary Microsoft decisions.
People are used to MS Office now but so were they used to typewriters a few decades ago. And if we’re changing OSes we don’t have to stick to one office suite.
there’s problems like Libre Office
A very simple problem that I absolutely hate in LibreOffice that I can’t find a solution for. When typing in a formula in a spreadsheet and then trying to autocomplete it, you cannot use ‘Tab’. If you want to do a vlookup and start typing “=vloo” and then hit ‘Tab’ it just changes to the next column. Working in Excel at work and then switching to Calc at home is jarring and terrible. That option can’t be changed as far as I know. It’s a complete dealbreaker for me between the two. Luckily I don’t need to do much in my personal life on spreadsheets anymore or need to use my home PC for work like I used to.
I’m sorry, your standard 2000 era Logitech mouse doesn’t work? I find that hard to believe. I’ve been using Linux as my only desktop Os and Logitech mice both since 2000, and if there is one thing that always has worked, its the mice.
Needing to use command line for some things that should be a right click
Right click where? All major DE’s/WM’s implement stuff in their own way. The problem here is we don’t (and won’t) have a unified GUI that everyone uses, unlike the other two main OS’s. (Note: I don’t see this as a problem, more as a result of the FLOSS ecosystem being such a rich soil to build stuff on.)
I think Neal Stephenson’s In the Beginning was the Command Line has some valid points even today.
Needing to use command line for some things that should be a right click, not supporting right click, ambiguities galore when looking at a package repository, odd defaults in packages that one really wouldn’t expect to have to check (e.g. Selecting RDP connection in a Remote app, but it defaults the security to something other than RDP?)
Sounds like you’re using a GNOME Desktop. You should give KDE Plasma a try instead. KDE Plasma basically gives you a Windows-esq experience without trying to install something like GNOME extensions.
For a regular user there’s not much point into going into the command-line anymore.
there’s problems like Libre Office devs …
Sure but there’s also alternatives. LibreOffice doesn’t try to emulate Microsoft Office and they never really have. They won’t even try to be compatible with MS Office but rather they do with OOXML which Microsoft created for other Office suites to be compatible with it but then just never supported it very well. Some alternatives do however. WPS Office is perhaps the most popular alternative for this that does try to be compatible with MS Office and emulate its feel and features but ONLYOFFICE is also a contender.
Needing to use command line for some things that should be a right click, not supporting right click
You can do nearly everything you need to via the GUI on the major distros (the ones that most people would use). There’s plenty of things on Windows you must use the command-line for.
And anytime you need to use the Run dialogue it’s the same argument. It’s the same “issue” of having to type instead of using your mouse.
And if you don’t need to use the command-line on Windows, it’s the registry. The awful, terrible, horrible, disgusting registry.
I’m not actually sure what on earth you mean with “not supporting right click”. Maybe you’re thinking of older Mac versions?
it’s just not a great general purpose desktop for the average user,
It has been for a while now.
And the reason those few programs don’t support Linux is because they don’t think we have enough users. So don’t hold up on using linux for that reason, it’s just a circle.
Yes, I’ve been trying hard to squeeze some linux into my life, currently trying to turn an old laptop into a little music machine for jamming with on me midi keyboard. I’ve run across quite a few issues just trying to get specific software working. I did cave at one point and try to use windows 10 but their installation media tool would fail every time I tried and the hardware is too old for windows 11 lol. It also triggered my gag reflex just thinking of all the ads it would feed me and all the bullshit I’d have to disable to make it respect my privacy. A number of different distros just worked flawlessly, though, and if all I needed to do was simple computer things and web I’d be laughing.
Some software is always going to have problems. Specially if the developer never had to work with linux.
In my case I think of it like my choice of Linux like how people may choose other lifestyle. It’s not about having superior experience in everything, but about general good experience and self satisfaction.
Just think of it this way, people in the 90s were happy with the softwares they had, so if some subset of software is not available to me it’s not end of the world. On the flip side many softwares are only available to me because of linux, my favorite is poppler-tools that allow me to merge PDFs and other pdf related tasks that in windows you’d need to pay Adobe for. If you compare and want things that you can’t have it’ll always make you unhappy. Everytime you search for a tool, search in linux websites or search source codes and you’ll be happy to ignore any tools that have a lot of licensing complications and windows only support. Not saying that’s the way to do it, but that’s how I do it.
I have found that steam proton is a powerful wine machine. I’m not sure if it would help with any of the programs you are trying to run as it does have limits, but I’ve been shoving a ton of .exe files into steam and they usually work flawlessly.
i like using bottles or lutris for that, you can change wine versions and parameters easier in case something doesn’t work.
I’ve been shoving a ton of .exe files into steam
I wasn’t aware that was an option. Do you have a link on how to do that?
Steam can’t tell if something is a “game” or not, so you do it the same way as playing a non-steam game through the launcher
https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/how-to-add-non-steam-games-to-your-steam-library
I think the biggest shift in the last 20 years is troubleshooting in Linux and windows.
20 years ago and I had to troubleshoot issues and Linux. It genuinely required a good bit of computer knowledge to get it done. Sometimes hours of work to figure out how to get a webcam to work Or how to fix grub?
Windows back then used to be so easy. And there was usually something that would do a quick fix.
However, now and I run across a windows issue. It’s a nightmare. I can put hours of work into trying to fix a driver issue or an issue with updates and get nowhere. Then go to reinstall the operating system and have to spend more hours just to get it installed.
Now in Linux, not only do I rarely have issues but also fixing those issues are pretty straightforward. And if I can’t fix it a reinstall takes minutes and I’m back up and running in no time.
Windows tries to obfuscate any useful information while Linux tries to give logs and man entries to walk the user through what went wrong.
As a part-time sysadmin at my small company. We use Altium and Solidworks, so we need windows.
I have 10x more windows problems than Linux problems like a bug for around 5 or so people where a windows update would disable the microphone, but every single microphone menu and setting would say it is enabled and working properly. You HAD to use their troubleshooter (which they are now phasing out, wtf) in order for it to be auto fixed. So soon it will probably be replaced by something else that won’t fix the issue.
0 information online about it, 501 different way to fix audio issues, none of which work.
Nowadays the only problems that I have with Linux are slight bugs or user errors, honestly.
Well OBVIOUSLY you need to set HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session\Windows\Microsoft\Win10\MSWindows\CockNBalls\BSODWord to 0 then restart your computer.
I went through that phase too! The tweak times are so much fun and breaking things is a good way to learn.
Now I am in a sane defaults mode. Where I just want everything to work well. Pop on so far has been rock solid. I actually have been trying to not touch the terminal to see how that feels as a user. In been 4 months and so far it hasn’t been a problem.
May I recommend a versioning or snapshot capable filesystem like BTRFS? It lets me tweak and make mistakes with little fear.
With that said, always keep proper backups of data you care about.
Sometimes hours of work to figure out how to get a webcam to work Or how to fix grub?
The easiest solution was just “eh, I probably don’t need that anyways”
Nowadays I just roll my Linux installation back to before the updates using the BTRFS integration with the package manager. It works great and I’m never at a point where I can’t use my computer because updates broke it. Heck, even if I bork it myself it’s no biggie.
I feel like Linux respects me as the user. Like, I don’t know why this broke, but you get to keep both pieces. We believe in you. Good luck!
For me, one of the other annoyances is that both Windows and Mac OS push their services. Windows it’s gotten ridiculous and on Mac. I just don’t have the compatibility with all the stuff I want to use. Like I’m not in the ecosystem so it just doesn’t work for me as an operating system
However, now and I run across a windows issue. It’s a nightmare. I can put hours of work into trying to fix a driver issue or an issue with updates and get nowhere. Then go to reinstall the operating system and have to spend more hours just to get it installed.
Now in Linux, not only do I rarely have issues but also fixing those issues are pretty straightforward. And if I can’t fix it a reinstall takes minutes and I’m back up and running in no time.
THANK YOU. I’m sick of this rhetoric about Linux being hard and user-unfriendly because of the command-line.
Windows is such a pain to use for a while now. You need a ton of post install scripts and hacks to make it even remotely usable and when something goes wrong good luck figuring out what. The event viewer is usually just a bunch of vague COM errors with an ID. Then when you look up that ID it’s barely more useful than “something went wrong”.
I remember 2014 being pretty easy to install Linux. Windows 7 and 10 were also pretty easy then.
Haha, you’re so silly! The meme says 10 years ago and not— …
My god, it really has been ten years since 2014, hasn’t it?
If Back to the Future was made today, Marty would have traveled back to 1994.
2004 is when we got Ubuntu, and if I recall correctly Mandrake was also rather easy to install.
I remember breaking my Ubuntu install a bunch of times when trying to install nvidia drivers and flash player to watch YouTube.
