Some of the LinkedIn Responses are direct and on-point, and also hilariously/depressingly based depending on how you look at it:
EDIT: In hindsight, I think I should’ve looked into posting this in a different community… It’s closer to a silly “innovation”… soo… is this considered FUD? I also don’t support smoking or vaping, especially among kids. Original title had “privacy-violating” before the “solution”.
How is this invading someone’s privacy? All it’s doing is detecting if children are smoking in a room or space at school and then putting an alert up about the detection on a screen.
They have zero right to privately smoke at school, or anywhere for that matter, smoking is illegal for children and not something to be taken lightly.
Similarly, adults have no right to privately smoke whilst in the workplace in the bathroom or other non-smoking designated areas. This is also illegal and not to be taken lightly.
How is this invading someone’s privacy?
So you think they will not use this to try to identify the vaping student?
… good?
Everyone (even kids) have a reasonable expectation of privacy, but children using drugs in school isn’t something that falls under that reasonable expectation of privacy.
Considering they are only harming themselves, no I do not care much
As others mentioned, I think schools should dedicate resources to address this situation through education, instead of paying some start up for some surveillance gadgets
How would you like this installed in your workplace? How about ankle monitors that detect if you’re jaywalking? What about if your car had a sensor that automatically informed law enforcement if you were speeding. What if your ISP would shut off anytime you watched a video with copyright without permission.
See how bullshit “if you’re doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide” is?
So you think we should all be allowed to smoke in non-smoking places? The school already has all info on all it’s kids, what else “private” is being revealed here? If you break the rules of the establishment where you are, they’ll try to identify and ban you, because that’s how private property and bylaws work. School is no different. If you break the rules you face the consequences.
Is this logical and useful? No. Does it help kids become better and learn? No. Will it actually reduce vaping? No, it’s a leaderboard now.
But is it invading privacy? Also no. It is enforcing nonsensical draconic rules, but not revealing any information that wouldn’t be already known or demanded by the institution in that situation.
So you think we should all be allowed to smoke in non-smoking places?
No, but I see you need to make up a point I didn’t make so you could attack that.
Lazy strawman, you must be from reddit
Privacy isn’t restricted to just your data on file. You’d expect some sort of privacy in bathrooms (I assume that’s where these would be installed). It can also set a precedent. Maybe they start tracking cellphone use “ensure students are paying attention”. Maybe they start tracking how often students are using the restroom, especially female students to gather data on their cycles (incredibly plausible depending on the state). Maybe they track their exact movements via school wifi. Maybe they give them laptops to spy on them at home. None of these obviously equate to one another but where does the school draw the line? Rather not have this shit in the first place.
I agree. These are anonymous messages. I don’t see any privacy violations.
They could set up camera’s that record who’s entering and leaving the restroom and thus violate privacy but this seems fair play to me. They’ll just vape somewhere else.
They’re not anonymous tho, the image very clearly labels who’s desk the vaping was detected at
It says “Simon’s desk” which is the name of the guy making the post, which to me says he was testing the software from his desk.
When it is deployed, it would say “vaping detected in north stairwell” or whatever. They are not installing sensors on every desk.
Vaping is not the same as smoking and can be done perfectly safely with no drugs involved at all (i.e. flavor only vapes). It’s barely different than inhaling steam.
Edit: I’m willing to admit when I’m wrong, and now think “relatively safely” is a better way of putting this. There’s a few concerns that I’m perfectly happy to live with as an adult, but I get that kids won’t have spent as much time trying to understand the risks.
It technically is a kind of steam in fact, actually. Even with drugs involved.
I think it’s literally almost the same shit that’s in fog machines, juice is PG, VG, Flavoring, and Nic, fog machines are (iirc) PG, VG, water, maybe essential oils for smell. You don’t have to use USP food grade VG/PG for the fog though.
Steam is the hot gas that is produced when water is boiled. It’s also completely see through, ie, invisible.
That is not what the vapes produce. It’s a water vapor. That’s why they’re called “vaporisers” and not “steamers”.
I’m getting a lot of downvotes, and maybe I’m wrong about what kinds of vapes kids are using? Obviously if they’re using nicotine vapes, that’s bad and chemically addictive.
But I don’t have a problem with kids vaping the drug-free, flavored juice. It can be habit forming, but so can fidget spinners. As long as it’s not actually dangerous then I don’t really care.
pretty wild you can still type with that boot in your mouth. how do you see around it? do you just touch type?
I am all for vape detectors. They only detect the fumes and aren’t really that invasive. They are basiclly specialized fire alarms.
Nicotine is very bad for developing brains. I don’t understand why you are ok with minors using it in a public school of all things.
It is literally a glorified smoke alarm.
Although, I am sure it is a slippery slope. Next the may want to install CO2 detectors and water line monitoring. They even may install pencil sharpeners in the classroom
Or they could start monitoring for violent words being said.
A smoke alarm monitors for an emergency, this is for monitoring people. There is a difference.
It’s not hard to see how the path of “monitor and report” is sliding into a more police state mindset when it’s been show that the best deterrent is education. And before people say “do both”, no. Stuff like this makes kids see the school as the enemy, someone to work around and try to beat. It destroys any trust.
They might also finally getting around to deterring school shooters by mounting those cool AI powered Samsung smart guns they recently installed at the Korean DMZ
Nobody said they were ok with young people vaping. The point people are making is that communication and discipline, both things that require time and skill, would be a better, less invasive approach.
The point people are making is that communication and discipline, both things that require time and skill, would be a better, less invasive approach.
Perhaps that’s being done as well?
But even if it is, that approach doesn’t work with all people, no matter how skillful or how much time is put into it.
Nicotine is very bad for developing brains.
[Citation needed]
While I don’t disagree that kids shouldn’t be vaping, let’s at least stick to the realm of truth.
I didn’t thinking that idea was still in dispute. There have been multiple studies in this area. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3543069/
It’s not really the detector that I have a problem with here, it’s the “reduce vaping incidents through social influence” part. Their plan (as I understand it) is to have a display outside the washroom to tell other kids that the person in the washroom is vaping and essentially get them to quit through public shaming, which is both cruel and ineffective. If the detector instead alerted teachers privately that there was someone vaping in the washroom then the teachers would deal with it appropriately, I think it could be okay.
My brother used to vape back in high school, and punishment never got him to stop, it just made him get more creative about how he hid it. When he eventually did quit after he graduated, he chose to because he knew it was harmful.
I think it is a bigger issue. I think the vaping companies need to be held liable for targeting under age kids.
I think long term the idea is to keep them from starting to begin with. That’s hard to do but getting it out of school will reduce the spread of the addiction. It definitely will be appreciated by the students who don’t vape and don’t want to smell or inhale it.
My problem with it is the whole purpose of what the device does based on the post is stupid. It just puts a notification on the screen as a way to try and use social pressure to get people to stop vaping. But that doesn’t work cause no one really cares if you vape or not. Some people might even think it’s cool or might turn it into a game of trying to vape without setting it off to impress their other friends who vape. I graduated highschool in 2019 and people definitely vaped and the only people they really cared about hiding it from were the teachers, no other students cared at all. So because of all of that this kind of device is just a waste of money that could be better spent on educating kids on how vaping is bad, just like what we did for cigarettes that worked so well.
i dont see how this is a violation of anyones privacy and trying to get kids to not get addicted to drugs is a pretty fucking good cause.
Addicted to drugs!? We’re talking about vaping here. Don’t strain your hand clutching those pearls.
Nicotine is no better of a drug than many others you probably wouldn’t want kids taking. Just because it’s a vape doesn’t mean it’s not incredibly addictive.
Assuming this is just a sensor for air quality tuned to this use case, I would probably have to agree. So long as it isn’t tracking specific students or taking photos, this is about as privacy invansize as the motion detector that opens automatic doors… or any old carbon monoxide or other detector which are used to legit protect public safety, just as preventing children from the claws of the tobacco industry.
Lemmy generally has a pro-drugs sentiment, which is certainly unsettling.
Also, can I visit bathrooms and not get into clouds of vape smoke, pretty please?
i mean im all for letting people approach drugs as they please but, someone smoking weed once in a while with some frinds is not the same as massive corporations flooding media as specifically media for children with propaganda to get them addicted to nicotine. Being pro that isnt so much being pro drug as its being a corporate bootlicker and downright irresponsible.
I 100% support this initiative.
I’ll chime in with a weird take: this is a privacy community, we are united in a sense of defending our peaceful and unproblematic browsing on the internet and sending messages to friends from lunatics who seem to want everyone treated with the suspicion of highest criminal activity. the article posted describes a “privacy infringement” onto someone who not only has already broken the rule, but strongly publicized it by making people have to smell it. the perpetrators didn’t even have an expectation of privacy, so the premise is ridiculous.
I’ll say it like this: if the tv detects nicotine patches on someone’s skin, then i pick up the torches and pitchforks.
This may be a controversial take, but maybe we shouldn’t surveil children in bathrooms full stop.
There’s no indication they use cameras in there. It’s most likely just a sensor for vape smoke, similar to your common fire alarm.
And if it makes bathrooms a place where everyone can breathe without inhaling nicotine, I’m all for it. This is not a serious privacy concern.
I think your take is too far. It’s just beyond reasonable.
If a teacher were outside the room and heard a loud crash, they’d go investigate. This is doing the same thing.
It isn’t identifying individuals, it doesn’t record any information about a person, it simply flags that somebody is breaking the rules and is worth taking a look.
This is about the least invasive technological solution you could get.
And it’s a heck of a lot better than alternatives like removing the stall doors.
This. It’s a sensor, detecting only a specific air type. Not a camera, not a microphone. It doesn’t have to do with privacy, this is not “scan and collect data about all to punish one” and cannot be turned into one.
I’ll agree it’s a fuc**ing dumb idea. Like utter useless garbage. Classic capitalistic “fix behavioral trash-consumption issue with overpriced fancy tech products that sound amazing in theory and are garbage in practice, without fighting the problem at the root”. Screenshot comment said tax moeny but I’m willing to bet this is some kind of private school.
