“It wouldn’t be right to rape you, you have a boyfriend,” is about what I expect from a 4Channer.
EDIT: Holy fuck Lemmy, this comment section is a dumpster fire. First, to all the people saying he did reject her because she was drunk, not because she has a boyfriend, there’s no evidence of that; he stated twice that it was wrong because she had a boyfriend, and zero times that it was wrong because she was drunk. But whatever, if you want to believe that, whatever, I’m done arguing over your fan fiction.
But here are some things that are 100% facts that some of you need to understand:
- If someone is throwing up, they are too drunk to consent to sex.
- If you are not throwing up, you are almost certainly not as drunk as someone who is throwing up. The person vomiting has alcohol poisoning, and unless you also have symptoms of alcohol poisoning, you are more sober than them.
- Vomiting does not remove alcohol from your system. Intoxication occurs when alcohol enters your bloodstream. Vomiting will prevent further alcohol from entering your bloodstream, but it will not remove any alcohol from your bloodstream, and you’ll be just as drunk as you were before you vomited.
- If the OP had sex with the girl in this story, it would have been rape. She was far too drunk to give consent, and based on his telling, he was not. Clearly, some of you feel differently, but your shitty opinions on consent don’t change the fact that legally, it would have been rape.
LOL, exactly the shit I’m talking about. Imagine thinking it’s OK to have sex with a girl who just drank so much she puked. I thought thinking like this died out in the 80s, but i guess the kids are back on date rape.
or I’m an adult I’ve drank and live in the real world not the Internet like this fuckin opinion. Throwing up from drinking doesn’t indicate intoxication level, they pregamed she drank too fast and then tried to have sex with him.
Her trying to have sex with him says she’s not too drunk. Like what the fuck? I’ve thrown up from a single shot of tequila because it doesn’t sit well with me, if I mix too much sugar and alcohol I’ll puke. Am I too drunk to consent off one shot of tequila? Grow up
So you’re shitting on them for doing the right thing? Or am I misinterpreting
The last temptation is the greatest treason / to do the right deed, for the wrong reason
His reasoning for not sleeping with her was that she had a boyfriend, so it, “wouldn’t be right.” But that girl was so drunk that sleeping with her would have been rape. He did the right thing, but his reasoning was clearly wrong, and implies that if she didn’t have a boyfriend he would have slept with her, even though she could not consent.
I can see what you’re saying, but you are making some assumptions and that’s entirely due to OP being an unreliable narrator.
Throwing up usually purges a lot of the alcohol from your system. OP makes no mention of throwing up themselves, and I’m assuming they were drinking too. That means there’s a solid chance there’s more alcohol in OPs system than hers. You do understand that consent works both ways, yes?
Or maybe what he expected was most likely to let a drunk girl let him go?
If you were in that situation, would you say “no, I would be raping you”? The boyfriend excuse is a much more tactful way to get yourself out of the situation (as well as a good enough reason in its own right).
No it’s not. “Hey, I really like you, but you’ve had too much to drink and this wouldn’t be right. If you feel this way tomorrow, let me know,” is a perfectly acceptable answer. Hell, I’ve given that answer before. It’s certainly not less tactful than, “You have a boyfriend and what you’re doing is wrong.” And yeah, cheating on your boyfriend is bad, but not as bad as rape, which this would have been.
Keep in mind, you’re telling this to a blackout horny drunk person. In honesty, it doesn’t matter what you actually say.
The alternative is rape charges… so… yeah.
Edit: If she’s vomiting drunk do you think she’s going to remember consenting in the morning? Or wake up, remember nothing, and think you raped her? She might remember, she might not. It’s a roll of the dice, but there’s no way I’m rolling those dice. You go argue in court how “she really wanted you” all you want.
Taking this series of events at face value, it could absolutely be argued that she enthusiasticly constented (wrapping her legs around him and kissing), however, annon did absolutely right, and I would have done the same.
On the other hand, someone holding on to and kissing someone else for a long time is clearly into the other person at the time.
Had annon been drunk, he could probably be excused for not realizing the situarion had it continued, but as he wasn’t (from what I understand) he would have been held to a higher standard
If anything, anon would have been the aggrieved party. “No” doesn’t mean yes or later or maybe, it means “no.” If getting drunk absolved you of all responsibility, DUIs wouldn’t exist. Folks need to respect boundaries.
I am with you right up untill he kissed her.
Though I read that as a way to distract her and get out of the situation.
There are many ways this could go wrong morally or legally. Without being there, no one can know. (Which makes it dangerous legally).
Just because she vomited doesn’t mean much. Especially, since they were “pre gaming”. Idiots in college would often slam shots or beers in drinking games, throwing up before they had a chance to really absorb much alcohol.
Morally, it depends on the power dynamic. How drunk was he compared to her? In this case, it sounds like the OP wasn’t drunk and made the safe decision. Even if he would be morally/legally right, the situation with the bf would probably involve a ton of unneeded drama.
ITT: The top regarded minds of Lemmy argue their shitty opinions on consent and rape
Abandon all hope ye who enter
I didn’t see a single awful take. Some I disagreed with but none that were awful.
Cheating on her boyfriend with you will end in cheating on you with a new guy.
He dd the right thing, no regrets. It sucks a lot tho, and it’s hard.
how would he be raping her anyway? she was the one trying to force him to have sex with her even after he made it clear he didn’t want to
I’m going to give a longer explanation than was already given.
So, imagine yourself at a hospital. You’re about to have a minor surgery, and get knocked out. While you’re under, some nurse comes in and fucks you in the ass.
Is that rape?
Switch things up. You’re at a bar, having a good time, someone slips something in your drink. While you’re under the influence of that hit of whatever, they take you into the bathroom and fuck you in the ass, and you agreed to that, you may even like it.
Is that rape?
On a fundamental level, if someone is visibly drunk, or even olfactorily drunk (meaning your can smell the booze on them), they are in a state of mind that is the same as being drugged. It doesn’t matter if they are initiating contact, they are unable to give meaningful consent.
Now, if you want to argue we need another term instead of rape, I’m okay with that. We can call it whatever. But we have statutory rape already, which exists because we recognize that even when someone is the initiator, there are states of mind and being that simply can’t make a choice to have sex in a meaningful way. So using the term rape for violating meaningful consent is fine, even when it’s an adult, and even when they initiate.
I am also aware that there are edge cases where consenting before consuming a substance could/should count as meaningful consent. And I’m aware that there is a range of inebriation where meaningful consent is still possible. However it is nearly impossible to tell without testing what a person’s blood alcohol level is, so we’re limited. That in turn means that the standard for (at least colloquial usage) what is and isn’t inebriated rape has to be broader than it would be if we had reliable testing on the fly.
I also agree with your point that she was ignoring consent, and being an absolutely horrible person, and if she had persisted by force or coercion and he had given in, I wouldn’t accept her being drunk as a defense against any charges brought.
But there’s a fundamental inability to consent when drunk. How drunk? That’s something that would need to be addressed by medical science and then legislated. What’s the maximum BAC someone can give meaningful consent for other things? But that fact is there, that alcohol serves to break down the ability to consent, and sex without consent is considered rape, on at least a colloquial level, if not always on a legal level everywhere.
Drunk people and consent is a moral and legal gray area - it doesn’t matter if they initiate
Laaame. You don’t know their situation, seriousness, or arrangements. Fuck around. Fuck as many people as you’d like. You only live once, and your junk stops working once you’ve figured it all out.
To be fair he is right. The girl could have given consent before they began drinking. Its possible the story actually isnt rape even if they have sex.
Theres even a situation where the girl would be justified in being upset they didnt hook up.
We can’t predict the future and theres not enough details here to make a specific determination on what is right and wrong.
It is a good post to stoke discussion around consent and honesty though, just don’t take it so seriously.
I wouldn’t go that far. If you look at what they said, they were talking about cheating, or rather helping someone cheat.
Still a less than stellar ethical stance, but the comment they were responding to was about cheating, not consent, so I suspect that those of us that saw the ugliest possibilities in the post saw their comment with that in mind. I know I did the first time I saw the comment. It wasn’t until I came back after a response to a comment I made that I noticed the difference.
Mind you, they then went full jerk, so they aren’t exactly a pleasant individual. But I’d rather that be the issue than something they didn’t actually say.
anon, knows that drunk people can’t consent 👍