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UnitedHealth uses AI model with 90% error rate to deny care, lawsuit alleges
“calls for violence in any form against any living creature” are a violation of lemmy.world terms of service. Comments calling for or celebrating violence will be removed, and may result in additional moderation actions
I used bleach on my countertops this morning killing millions of bacteria. Put me in Lemmy Jail.
thin line. many people got sent to jail in England for celebrating too enthusiastically online during the anti-immigrant riots. the internet today isn’t the same as the internet 15 years ago
the rules aren’t because the mods care very much. the rules are so than the website doesn’t get taken down and/or the owners/maintainers aren’t subject to serious legal penalties
Spare me, they’re being way more liberal with comments on Bluesky and they are far bigger than Lemmy.
You and the mods just want to protect rich people from group consensus about them being terrible.
Your paranoia about a slippery slop to violence is very transparent.
thin line. many people got sent to jail in England for celebrating too enthusiastically online during the anti-immigrant riots.
The only thing I ever saw about people online being sent to jail were these two .
Parlour, of Seacroft, Leeds, who called for an attack on a hotel housing refugees and asylum seekers on Facebook, became the first person to be jailed for stirring up racial hatred during the disorder.
Kay was convicted after he used social media to call for hotels housing asylum seekers to be set alight.
So if you consider that ‘too enthusiastic’ I uh… have a different definition of that.
Wish I would have known how over zealous .world moderation was gonna be when I signed up. Go take a nap for a couple days.
It depends on the community. For example, the Political Memes community of .world is incredibly dumb when it comes to moderation and I’ve been moderated for “misinformation” for saying that a party sending billions in support of genocide means that the party supports genocide, but that’s an instance of moderators trying to enforce their opinions through the moderation system. At least in this case it’s out of an abundance of caution since there’s such a stigma against violence and even messages simply celebrating it can be misconstrued as encouraging it.
Meh, they should grow a spine, people call for violence all day on truth social, twitter, etc.
This whole ‘abundance of caution’ is due to decades of successful brainwashing and propaganda. How many avoidable deaths are the direct result of executive policy at healthcare, oil, law enforcement, etc. organizations?
Should we censor celebrations or (hypothetical) calls for the deaths of Hitler, Mao, Andrew Jackson, etc?
When does it become acceptable to fight back? When you’ve been conditioned to exercise an ‘abundance of caution’ the answer is never.
I’m not calling for violent revolution here, nor a complete lack of moderation, I’m just noting that removing comments of a rightfully angry and frustrated community is weak as fuck.
If you post a manifesto with calls to violence, sure, I can see that being removed, but a little festive comment celebrating the death of a deserving POS? GTFO.
Did you read this comment or apply any thought before you hit post? “Against any living thing” is so hilariously broad it makes me wonder if you’re just trolling.
In this context in nearly is. It is a partial quote that is missing the context (the section it is in is generally talking about targeting other lemmy users and groups) and furthermore, they are using that overly broad one line to justify deleting a large amount of comments that “glorify” violence. Which is not in the TOS, including comments that don’t talk about violence at all like:
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Someone saying they would contribute to a legal defense fund
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Someone mentioning an insanity plea or Jury nullification for a legal defense
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Someone advocating for calling in to the tip line in protest
I get the mods have a job to do, but they aren’t doing it very well and are severely overreacting and over-interpreting a single line in the TOS.
This is not a Nazi Bar problem. This is a mod being overly sensitive to people being happy about someone getting what they deserve after making millions of peoples lives harder. You trying to turn this into a non-violence issue is just pathetic.
making millions of peoples lives harder
And literally killing some number themselves. Denial of coverage for treatments can and does lead to death in some cases.
We have a justice system so that we don’t need to use vigilante violence. Make no mistake, this man was a mass murderer. He was personally responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent people. But because of our corrupt legal and justice system, he was able to get away with it.
We no longer have any legal method of holding the wealthy and powerful to account for their crimes. The courts are crooked and the politicians bought and paid for. Again, we implemented courts and a justice system so that we didn’t have to use vigilante violence. In olden times, if someone killed your loved one, it was perfectly acceptable to kill them in revenge. We in time implemented a formal legal system to prevent this kind of retributive vigilante violence.
Well, what do you think happens when you break that legal system so thoroughly that the wealthy can no longer be held to account? At that point, your society goes right back to the law of might makes right.
It’s actually very similar to the violence that occurs between gangs. If you’re a drug dealing mafioso, and someone cheats you in a drug deal, you can’t turn to the courts for relief. So instead, you have to use violence.
The people no longer have any real way of holding the wealthy responsible, even for literally murdering innocent people. We’re going to see a lot more such attacks in the future. And it will not end until we reinstate the old peace treaty that is our justice system.
Any living creature can’t be the standard. That’s just absurdly Broad. By this argument you can’t have cooking communities. In any form against any living creature? I can’t cut down a tree on this website apparently.
Antibacterial soap are murder. Vaccines are okay though, except for that one weird virus that actually experiences internal changes sans host.
Super disappointed mods can’t parse people not being surprised or feeling something was deserved as a consequence of their actions, and advocating the violence.
My comment that got removed was “can’t imagine why this happened”, which neither calls for, nor celebrates violence, but expresses that the conditions leading to such an action, in our dystopian US are predictable, have happened before countless times in history all over the world.
The inability to acknowledge the fault of the powerful actors and system that created such conditions and utter lack of consequences for the rich and powerful in the US are what caused such responses for an agreeably horrific act. The issue that won’t go away, on Lemmy or anywhere else, and oversimplifying the above to “advocating violence” is disingenuous if deliberate, and idiotic if accidental.
What’s crazy is they seem to be removing comments just mentioning that jury nullification is a thing…
It is interesting. Calls for violence are against the TOS. There is actually nothing in the TOS or the sidebar rules about “Celebrating Violence”.
I mean that is fine and all, and frankly it is a good policy. Just kinda bad form to be deleting so many posts for something that isn’t in the TOS.
Seems the mods have added additional interpretations to the TOS and then used that as justification to delete a whole lot of the conversation.
Anyways. I like violent video games. Is that celebrating violence, how about football? Can I like football here?
I posted in c/news about the mods being overzealous in deleting posts in these threads, and it was deleted for rule 6. Fair enough. However, I have looked over the modlogs for the post regarding this shooting and the number of posts that are being deleted for relatively innocuous comments is excessive.
Being happy a bad person got shot is not : Glorifying Violence, Celebrating Violence, nor Inciting Violence.
More over, If this were someone like Kim Jong-Un, or Putin who had been shot, I find it hard to believe the mods would be nearly so overzealous to delete comments saying in essence “good, he had it coming”.
I don’t think the mods are intentionally skewing the conversation as much as they have an unexamined bias.
It is okay for people to be happy a bad thing happened to a bad person. Other people are okay to disagree with this statement. Let the discussion (within reason) happen. If you aren’t prepared to moderate a discussion, turn off comments on your magazine.
Mod: The moderators of this community - and those of other communities - have an easy-to-verify track record for removing any calls for violence and encouraging/celebrating past violence, even directed at despicable individuals. This does not depend on the target of the violence. It is a part of the terms of service of the server, which are not determined by the moderators of this community. Users also agree to these terms by accessing lemmy.world (I am not a lawyer - please contact an admin if you have legal questions).
“Celebrating violence” is not in the TOS. I get how one can move from the TOS “No call for violence” to a more practical “no celebrating violence”. But no, no one here agreed to that in the TOS because that is not what is in the TOS.
And honestly the section in the TOS which you guys keep quoting:
- Attacks on users or groups
Before using the website, remember you will be interacting with actual, real people and communities. Lemmy.World is not a place for you to attack >other people or groups of people. Just because you disagree with someone doesn’t give you the right to harass them. Discuss ideas and be critical of >principles. Show the respect you desire to receive.
We do not tolerate threats of and calls for violence in any form against any living creature.
Really seems to be there to protect the users of Lemmy from violence, which I support. Not the CEOS of Corporations. I mean, in the context of the paragraph it seems obvious you guys are overreacting to most of the deleted posts.
Mods are always gonna be mods. It is the personality that is required to do a thankless job for no pay.
That said: Understand that the major social networks have legal departments. A lemmy instance is a few people working out of their basements who suddenly get a letter from the French version of the FBI asking for details about someone who is TOO happy about a politician getting got.
Best case scenario? That instance now needs to make a “public” stand for when they will and won’t cooperate with law enforcement and there is no way that ends well. Worst case scenario? The instance is considered an accomplice.
I enjoy lurking at resetera because holy shit. And it was hilarious to watch the mass ban waves of the “Socialism OT” members who had spent years outright calling for people to arm themselves and fight governments. And it started within weeks of people finding out that resetera had been sold to some major corporation (I want to say MMO Network?).
Locking. About 50 reports. I’m a volunteer, and don’t have enough time for this.
JD Vance said about school shootings being a ‘fact of life’ Maybe ceo shootings should be equally the same?
It should go without saying that such violence is not good and not supportable.
That said, I also think those who make monopolistic fortunes off the sick while also dictating refusal of care to the sick are categorically not civilians. It is what it is.
“those who make monopolistic fortunes off the sick while also dictating refusal of care to the sick” is hardly arbitrary, though, is it. It’s quite a high bar to clear, that. It’s rational too, since they do many orders of magnitude more harm than e.g. a death row inmate, whom society is content to destroy.
The ruling class isn’t a “civilian”, because they literally command armed forces.
While not always called “armies”, their function is the same: Secure the interest of the capitalist class.
Just like I wouldn’t call the POTUS a “civilian”, as the POTUS commands an armed force.
It should go without saying that such violence is not good and not supportable.
I am not celebrating. It’s a tragedy, even if a predictable one. We’ll all do better with a little more cooperation and a lot less greed.
I don’t like it when people die, or get maimed.
If I say that I can understand how something like this happens, it’s not out of sympathy for the murderer. It’s just an accounting of facts amidst the fact that billions of people exist so obviously someone is going to be willing to kill for their perceived injustices. Especially when injustices are a lot more concrete than abstract.
It’s a tragedy,
Technically, and in reality, it’s not a tragedy. Technically, dying from a pre-existing condition as a health insurance exec is a comedy. In reality, it’s a net positive for society.
Guillotines and the French Revolution disagrees with you. But good on you to pat yourself on the back with your superior morals.
I don’t know if it’s morals, I just don’t have the stomach for violence. That’s kind of a weird thing to say to a person anyway.
I just don’t have the stomach for violence
That’s exactly what rich people are counting on. They want you to roll over and take it up the ass.
The freedoms you have today were obtained through bloodshed. So I’m not really sure what point you’re making other then you’re not willing to fight for anything.
So you’d rather give up on everything and fight for nothing. Nice dude.
Peace can work too, but the Ivory towers types need to learn that ignoring peaceful protest, and undermining accountability and regulation, will inevitability lead to violence. He brought this on himself.
It’s apparently against community rules to discuss violence in any form.
So instead let’s talk about giving CEOs bunnies. Everybody loves bunnies and maybe putting a bunny in a CEOs lap will show them the love they are sorely missing.
Give every CEO a bunny. Give them 20. Give them bunnies while their backs are turned, surprise them with bunnies. Send them bunnies to their homes. Let them y know they are loved even while they’re away from work. Put bunnies in their beds, in their cars. No billionaire CEO should ever turn a corner without knowing a bunny is there waiting. Let the billionaires know the true depths of our love. With bunnies.
Don’t forget to pick up the spent bunny casings. They can lift fingerprints off of those.
And expect the health insurance industry to act on that.
Well Mr Johnson. We were looking through your onboarding package with Innertrode and can see you have a 6 year old daughter. We need to put her on the Uvalde plan because she is a child and they are prone to lead poisoning and mass hemorrhages which we won’t be covering. But if she gets the sniffles, we have it covered because you are family. Also we’ll need to talk to you about her reproductive health once she reaches marrying age next year
I almost commented that UnitedHealthcare doesn’t have a monopoly, but that’s really only true at a national level. In some US states, they’re the only option.
The disgusting profits are a product the health insurance industry, they only make money by denying coverage. It’s an environment that encourages human suffering.
There’s an awful lot of celebratory assumptions going on here, I’d caution everybody that we still don’t know the reason this guy was killed.
Everyone WANTS it to be “scumbag insurance exec. killed for scumbag insurance reasons”, but we just don’t know at this point.
Jilted lover? Could be. Caught cheating? Sure, why not? Insurance killing? Weirder things have happened. Friend or relative just sick of his shit? I mean, I dunno the guy, but anything is possible. Completely random killing? In MY New York City? It’s more likely than you think!
In short, before you all start going “Wooo! Good start!” maybe take a breath and wait until we know more about what happened.
