3 points

They’re just trying to scare the Americans out of the office so they can replace them with cheaper H1Bs who won’t talk back.

permalink
report
reply
-19 points
*

Unions will not increase the average wage. They will only even-out wages across the economy. Which means they will increase the lowest wage.

Unions will not solve the social problems in the US. UBI (Universal Basic Income) will solve them.

You need to advocate for UBI. There is no good reason not to have it.

UBI doesn’t cost the economy anything. That’s no “donating money to poor people”. Poor people will immediately spend it on food and housing/apartmenting, which means the money stays (better yet, flows) within the local economy.

The reason the US doesn’t have UBI yet isn’t because it isn’t affordable. It is. The reason UBI wasn’t introduced so far yet is because they wanted to scare the people into working harder. It’s for psychological reasons, not for real (financial/technical) reasons.

If there is 1 homeless person sitting by the street, people will say “they’re lazy and deserve this because they didn’t work hard. So i need to work harder”. If there’s 100 homeless people sitting by the street, people start to realize it’s not their fault and the system is at fault; and will demand drastic dramatic changes. UBI is an effective way to prevent that. UBI isn’t a choice - it’s a necessity for a stable society.

permalink
report
reply
2 points

Unions will not increase the average wage.

Unions (and redistributive policies) can increase median, not just mean wages. That’s the figure that matters to the “average” (50th-percentile) worker. The trillions of dollars hoarded by billionaires do nobody any good but the billionaires themselves.

permalink
report
parent
reply
21 points

UBI without worker’s power and strong unions will just become a leash in the hands of the state to enforce social compliance. Unions and UBIs are not mutually exclusive. Also without strong unions, who do you think will advocate for UBIs? Neo-nazi, billionaires, and other people that want to give the bare minimum to defend the status quo from its collapse. The first to talk about UBI in the USA was Nixon, and it’s not by chance. The élites see the UBI as yet another tool to maintain the status quo and their privilege, giving scraps to the rest and subduing the state to make their own interest. UBI is a technical tool and therefore, by itself, it doesn’t solve social problems or shifts power. The shift of power should happen contextually to the introduction of the UBI, otherwise, it will just turn into yet another way to oppress the working class.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

“The hand that lifts you up holds you down.” Yeah, that’s a risk.

But if it’s unconditional, it can be beneficial for many people, especially those in music and the arts, caregivers, and others who contribute to the economy now without receiving much in the way of compensation.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points
*

I see your point. I think i understand the individual arguments and just for the sake of clarity i would like to list them again:

  • UBI would make the people dependent on government approval.

I think this depends on whether it’s properly implemented. If it’s properly implemented, it’s Universal and does therefore not depend on social compliance.

  • UBI is a technical tool and therefore, by itself, it doesn’t solve social problems

I disagree. Giving resources to people solves problems, including housing, education, and medical care. Maybe the details of where and how to allocate the resources need more elaboration.

Maybe this is a misunderstanding because what i mean by UBI is “give resources to the people that they can use for everyday life without expecting something in return”. In so far, public schooling or public healthcare are also a form of UBI for me.

  • Neo-nazi, billionaires, and other people that want to give the bare minimum to defend the status quo from its collapse.

Actually, I would like to keep the system from collapsing. If it does collapse, it will cause devastating harm on not only you, but all of society, probably turning it into ruins and a state-beyond-return.

  • The shift of power should happen contextually to the introduction of the UBI

Realistically, that’s not gonna happen. There’s not gonna be a “worker’s revolution” in the US. The rich take it all, leaving nothing for the poor. Dreams of a “revolution” are fairytales people tell themselves at night to sleep easier. If you really want change and to improve lifes, advocate for UBI. It really helps.

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

I think this depends on whether it’s properly implemented. If it’s properly implemented, it’s Universal and does therefore not depend on social compliance.

No system willingly surrender its power. Any implementation of UBI in the current power structure will just reproduce the current power structure.

I disagree. Giving resources to people solves problems, including housing, education, and medical care. Maybe the details of where and how to allocate the resources need more elaboration.

If this happens in a way that benefit people, it means the power shift already happened and the UBI is just the consequence of it, not the cause. The hard problem is the power shift, not the details of the UBI, that are reduced to a technical problem. Technical solutions follow from a rearrangement of society, not the other way around, despite what hackerinos and techbros believe.

Actually, I would like to keep the system from collapsing. If it does collapse, it will cause devastating harm on not only you, but all of society, probably turning it into ruins and a state-beyond-return.

The current system based on consumption, growth, and the industrial/post-industrial productive mode is unsustainable. It’s going to collapse regardless of UBI. Conservatives and reactionaries are so supportive of UBI exactly because it has the power to extend the “business as usual” a little longer, until bigger factors like soil exhaustion, climate collapse, biosphere collapse, oil EROI and other major factors will eventually make our mode of living unfeasible. That’s not an argument against UBI per se, but we should be wary of how it can be appropriated to make our life worse and this is a very concrete consequence. UBI as a starting step (good) vs UBI as a pacifier (bad).

Realistically, that’s not gonna happen. There’s not gonna be a “worker’s revolution” in the US. The rich take it all, leaving nothing for the poor. Dreams of a “revolution” are fairytales people tell themselves at night to sleep easier. If you really want change and to improve lifes, advocate for UBI. It really helps.

I’m not a revolutionary. I don’t believe revolutions have ever happened. I also don’t believe a major political change is going to happen in fascist USA anytime soon, unless Trump really fucks up his game. Sometimes there are just no good moves.

permalink
report
parent
reply
6 points

Look, I’m kind of an outsider on this conversation because until we get a DaVinci for mechanical work, I’m never going to be WFH, but there’s something interesting I’ve noted with all my programmer friends.

The industrial world, that’s where unions are, they’re getting pulled out but that’s the places unions live. The people working in stores are starting to push hard on unions. My industry, biomed, hasn’t really gotten unions off the ground, but it’s rumbling. We’re a small industry that’s so short on people it’s just easier to move jobs than start a union, but we’re a mix of tech and industrial backgrounds. But the programming tech backgrounds, at least here in the midwest, is apparently so anti-union I don’t know how it’d get off the ground from what I’m hearing from my friends. Their coworkers who are mad about RTO will immediately turn around and say the corporate lines about unions. I’m honestly kinda baffled and hope your industry gets it figured out.

permalink
report
reply
17 points

H1Bs are fine with coming into the office and won’t put up a fight with any corporate policy….

permalink
report
reply
0 points

That’s just market forces, then. I suggest domestic workers adapt or retrain in a new industry.

permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points

I suggest they unionize, demand seats on the board for their unions, and crush excessive C-level compensation. Moving on just moves the exploitation to a new kind of job.

permalink
report
parent
reply
6 points

Or they could unionize and lobby their government… That’s how democratic processes work on civilized countries

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

Unions lobbying the current US government isn’t going to happen. Nothing short of a general strike will make them listen.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

Oh, yeah you’re absolutely right. I just kind of left the best option out because it is the topic of the OP. Thanks for mentioning it!

permalink
report
parent
reply
17 points
*

Yup every time I see H1B I replace it in my head with tech slave. They’re paid, but the deck is so stacked against them they effectively cannot refuse anything. ANYTHING. A well informed H1B worker might score a chance at permanent residency for some of the abuse they suffer. But mostly it’s just years of abuse with very strict rules to get their residency.

permalink
report
parent
reply
32 points

Yeah, then they lose all their best and brightest who are disappearing off to work on their own things.

All these idiot C-suite trash will wind up holding is a bag of yesterday’s technology, a mass of obsolete infrastructure and a bunch of brands they’ve helped destroy.

permalink
report
reply
19 points

It is by design. Pool a bunch of money, buy companies to bleed them dry. Wait for new companies to take their place, rinse and repeat.

permalink
report
parent
reply
7 points

Eh… You can run a company without the best or brightest nowadays. Mediocrity gets the job done, mostly.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

It’s always been that way. Otherwise General Motors wouldn’t exist. Neither would Microsoft.

permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points

Lmao what?

permalink
report
parent
reply
12 points

Thousands of companies are out there doing just fine. Maybe 10% if people can be the best and brightest. It’s impossible for every company to have them.

The math just doesn’t math.

Average performers are just fine.

permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points
Deleted by creator
permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points

Ever heard of the term “Code-Monkeys” ?

permalink
report
parent
reply
5 points

Do you think every company out there is stacked with the best and brightest? By definition, only a minority of employees can be considered that. Many companies run just fine on mediocrity, it all depends on how they intend to make money. Mediocrity can in many cases be an advantage for a company, if that allows one to set aside any shred of integrity at a shot of accomplishment and praise from executing on the many bullshit and unethical things many corproations bring in cash from.

permalink
report
parent
reply

Technology

!technology@lemmy.world

Create post

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


Community stats

  • 12K

    Monthly active users

  • 13K

    Posts

  • 577K

    Comments