You did it “undecideds” and “both sides” people: You saved Palestine! /s
The best choice to save palestinian people is to do everything in power against the red and blue party.
When presented with a tough choice, you make it and deal with the circumstances. Sitting it out was a choice. They get to deal with the consequences.
No, the best choice would have been to empower the one party that actually has, albeit often ignored but nevertheless significant, pro-Palestinian and anti-Zionist members as part of its membership. And then to focus on improving that party and/or breaking up the duopoly along the natural and clear lines of opportunity present in the sole big tent party that’s left in US politics.
At the end of the day, there are no significant pro-Palestinian voices in the Republican party. There are in the Democratic party And that indisputable fact alone should inform a strategic vote.
That said, people are stupid and I don’t really blame non- and 3rd party voters for Democrats losing and the resulting shit show-- blame and culpability falls squarely on the many people who actually specifically voted for this. But it would be nice if those people would try to learn from and admit their incredibly disastrous error in judgement.
I agree with you. To anyone who still pretends Trump and Kamala were equally terrible with regard to Palestine: Kamala vocally supported an end to the war* and a two-state solution**, a prevailing US diplomatic philosophy. Please watch what Trump said tonight— it is so much worse than that. He advocates for the full removal of Palestinian people from their homeland.
*it is a genocide and not a war, I disagree with her.
**a two-state solution is not adequate as long as Israel continues to act as it does currently. Free Palestine. I disagree with her.
Kamala vocally supported an end to the war
She also said she was unwavering in her support for Israel and would keep arming them.
Remember when Trump said he would lower the prices of groceries? Do you judge him on that, or on his actions? Why is it different for Kamala and Dems?
You know, “empathy” isn’t just “I feel bad for people sometimes!”. Empathy is the ability to place your self in other people’s shoes. So now let’s practice some empathy. Imagine you are Palestinian, and you live in Gaza. Israel has bombed your neighbourhood with American bombs. Aid has been withheld from you and your family. Other hospitals and aid workers have been bombed by American bombs. Journalists are being shot with American supplied weapons and ammo. Some of your neighbours or friends - who weren’t killed - have been captured and are being raped.
Now tell me - keeping that state of mind and empathy - what fucking difference does it make that Kamala “vocally supported an end to the war”?
Can you tell me right now - concretely and materialistically, no vague bullshit - how things were/would be better for Palestinians under the Dems? I’ve asked this question so many times and have never gotten an answer that wasn’t just vague abstract BS like “but Trump said”.
It seriously astonishes me that the one situation where there is no difference between Reps and Dems (except for the words they use while doing the same thing), is the one situation people decide to shout about how much better Dems would be than Reps.
Now tell me - keeping that state of mind and empathy - what fucking difference does it make that Kamala “vocally supported an end to the war”?
Because it means we haven’t been completely been written off yet, public pressure could improve things. So you’d want the person who controls your fate to at least pretend to have empathy, not the maniac who used ‘Palestinian’ as a slur.
Can you tell me right now - concretely and materialistically, no vague bullshit - how things were/would be better for Palestinians under the Dems? I’ve asked this question so many times and have never gotten an answer that wasn’t just vague abstract BS like “but Trump said”.
There was still a Palestine. Now there won’t be. It’s really not that complex. There is a clear difference.
Actually, I just read one of your other comments, and you know what’s extra bullshit? The fact that you’re telling people you’re not even American, but you’re still trying to justify why people shouldn’t have voted for Harris.
Under previous administrations, Palestinians in the United States were able to claim refugee status for their relatives and get them out of Gaza.
Now, that’s gone.
The news cycle were able to report on everything going on in Gaza, and have people paying attention to the actual atrocities happening (never mind what’s happening in Sudan and Congo).
Now, Trump and Elon dominate the news cycle.
So many people were willing to donate to Gofundme’s for the people in Gaza to help them cross the border to Jordan/Egypt, or have enough money to at least buy food/shelter/medical treatment and survive until the ceasefire.
Now, people are losing their jobs or in such economic uncertainty DUE TO THE DIRECT ACTIONS OF THE TRUMP ADMIN there is no extra money for mutual aid.
The fact that your idealogical purity stance FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY has destroyed so much of the mutual aid mechanism surrounding Gaza and you don’t even realize it is the most tragic part. I do digital infrastructure work pro bono for an organization that helps Doctors Without Borders, and guess what? The employees there have been furloughed due to the USAID freeze.
So yeah, Kamala and DonElon…totally the same fucking thing, right?
Now tell me - keeping that state of mind and empathy - **what fucking difference does it make that Kamala “vocally supported an end to the war”?** Can you tell me right now - concretely and materialistically, no vague bullshit - how things were/would be better for Palestinians under the Dems? I’ve asked this question so many times and have never gotten an answer that wasn’t just vague abstract BS like “but Trump said”.
This is the easiest lob you could give me. It’s because HISTORICALLY it has been easier to get organized and get Dems to change their minds than it will ever be under Trump. His son-in-law Jared Kushner has been openly talking about beach front property in Gaza over the last year and courting land development deals.
If you think Kamala Harris would have gone on the news with Netenyahu and said she was going to use the AMERICAN MILITARY TO TAKE GAZA, you are actually out of your mind. Once again, I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY’S POSITION. I DO NOT THINK THEY ARE DOING RIGHT BY THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE. But we were already seeing movement regarding limiting arms and funds to Israel, and Biden’s ceasefire. The public backlash was actually gaining momentum into the House. We were seeing congress people speaking out against Netenyahu and the Biden administration getting both internal and external pressure for a pause in arms.
And then, boom, Trump elected.
There is actually no hope for a free Palestine under Trump and a Republican House and Congress. They don’t care about optics, they don’t care about international relations, they will use all the military and money they have to make sure that Israel becomes the “holy land” they need for their Christofascist rapture.
We are 16 days in the Trump presidency and he has announced that he will clean the Gaza Strip from Palestinians. So within the first 16 days he has proven that the GOP has a radically different Middle East policy than Democrats, and you still continue to lie and state that both sides are the same. I am guessing you will keep this BoTH SiDeS conviction even if Trump nukes Gaza.
Ok, so there was no difference between them on this genocide.
Guess Trump should have been stopped for other reasons.
Too late now. Enjoy the fascism.
Bold to presume that they were telling the truth when they said that they thought that BoTh SiDeS sAmE.
For me personally, I believe that they just might have been lying, and did not - in fact - believe their own BS at all.
Like this one from you-can-guess-who on Lemmy.ml:
They spoke, some people did not think critically and believed it, and now here we are. Lemmy is minor leagues, but the sAmE happening in the major leagues like X & Facebook etc. seem to have carried the day. Perhaps now people will start to think strategically. Or… probably not even now. Sad.:-(
It literally is a perfect example of “Blue MAGA” to make these comments in posts about Palestine, as if anyone ever though Trump would be better for Palestine, or as if the Dems hadn’t been the ones in power until last November and Kamala was still “unwavering” in her support of Israel.
Here is a bit of a refresher on all that was happening in Palestine while the Dems were in power and Kamala was “unwavering” in her support.
If you don’t wanna sound like Blue MAGA, go make these comments on literally any other thread about what the US is doing, not ones about Palestine.
These people can’t stop shadowboxing with people who supposedly withheld their votes. It’s weird. How many people who otherwise would have voted for Kamala stayed home because of their ongoing support of the genocide in Gaza? Do we even know? And if it was the decisive issue causing the Democratic defeat, what is the political lesson learned?
I can’t help but feel this understandable anger is completely misdirected. Or, maybe they support what is going on in Gaza and they’re annoyed that a critical part of their voting coalition felt otherwise?
It’s nice to see that Democrats suddenly care about genocide.
You all were perfectly accepting of it under Genocide Joe, and even nominated him to be your presidential candidate. You’re also conveniently just ignoring that the genocide continued until the literal last day of his presidency.
You’re still running around shouting at people?
Stop it and let’s focus on what we are going to do now.
Nah. We had to listen to “gEnOcIDe jOe!!!1!” for the better part of a goddamn year from these people. I’ve got a LOT more “we fucking told you so” to get out of my system before I’m ready to move on let alone begin to forgive. The threat that is now reality was fully apparent, and these single-issue people still decided to hold the country hostage to “teach the dems a lesson”. Fuck them. They’ve also shown they can’t be counted on, so I’m in no hurry to make amends.
You are nuts. The election was in November and you are still shouting at a little minority of potential allies who you can’t even be sure have voted for Trump. Like someone else said: It’s like you’re hoping for things to get worse just to be able to say “I told you so” over and over again.
If Biden didn’t allow Israel to flatten Gaza we wouldn’t be here.
If Biden didn’t veto ceasefire at the UN multiple times we wouldn’t be here.
If Biden didn’t send the bombs to Israel we wouldn’t be here.
If Biden didn’t lie about the rape and beheadings we wouldn’t be here.
If Biden didn’t provide Israel with the political cover, including proposing sanctions on the ICC, we wouldn’t be here.
If Biden did what Reagan did in 1982 and demanded that Israel stop, we wouldn’t be here.
If Biden wasn’t an enthusiastic supporter of Israel like he was in 1982 we wouldn’t be here.
I could go on…
Did biden do stupid shit? Sure. Did he made it worse? Yup. Was his at times clear and present dementia a deciding factor why trump has become president? Absofuckinglutely.
Is Biden the one proclaiming gaza a Trump realty project?
Most fucking certainly not.
Something that’s really frustrating to me is that it’s often deemed “not allowed” to point out that the Democrats (and Biden in particular) are trash fires that are hugely culpable for the situation we’re in now (that is, embracing fascism) because people assume that holding Democrats and the DNC responsible is incompatible with “voting blue.” I think the “undecided” movement during the primaries was great and probably a big part of why Biden was shuffled off of the ticket; it may have forced the DNC to do the bare minimum in fighting Trump by putting a (more) viable candidate on the ballot. I voted for Harris - unfortunately “Just vote!” didn’t work :\
People who are too moronic to understand the tightrope that any good faith administration is walking in the middle east and think it’s “just as bad” to give in to a fascist takeover instead are too far gone, and should start taking whatever meds are required asap.
Also, why are you fetching alleged Biden comments made decades before his presidency and current events you sad dog? Good luck seeing Trump being less enthusiastic
I think you mean if people understood inflation was caused by the pandemic and Trumps monetary policy we wouldn’t be here.
The number one factor in the election was the economy. Sadly, regarding Palestine, I think democrats would loss as many votes as they gained by taking a harder stance.
I’m so fucking tired of seeing this comment, because it’s just so unbelievably dumb. It would make (some level of) sense in posts about Elon taking over the government and immigrants being sent to Guantanamo Bay, but here? Like, just genuinely fucking stupid. And yet people keep fucking making them in all news threads about Palestine.
Can anyone here actually show me examples of people saying that Trump wouldn’t do this? Because all I saw was people saying that Palestine is going to be fucked regardless, and they didn’t want to cast their vote for someone who was going to support genocide. Meanwhile, comments like this one imply those people thought Palestine would be saved by not voting for Dems, which is a straw man.
Did you guys just forget how much happened under the Dems, and think Kamala winning would actually have improved things for Palestine? Is that it? Do you think it’s somehow worse for Palestinians now?
Here is an article from July 2023: Israel Is Officially Annexing the West Bank
December 2023: Nearly 100,000 Gaza buildings may be damaged, satellite images show
9th of August 2024: ‘Everything is legitimate’: Israeli leaders defend soldiers accused of rape
30th of August 2024: Harris says she won’t change US policy on arming Israel, stresses need for hostage deal
Stop with this comment in Palestine posts already. It’s seriously the dumbest fucking place you can make them. Go make these comments in a post about Trump censoring scientists or something.
🙄
Explain to me how, then. Don’t be abstract or vague. Tell me, right now, concretely and materialistically, and preferably with sources, how are things worse for Palestinians right now?
I’ve had this argument before and I never got an answer. Do you think it makes any difference for a Palestinian who is being shot/tortured/raped/blown up/having their home destroyed if the weapons and ammo that are being used to achieve those goals come from one American party or the other? Or did you just forget everything that was happening in Palestine before Trump was elected? Feel free to look at the links I posted.
comments like this one imply those people thought Palestine would be saved by not voting for Dems
Reps calling him genocide Joe was indeed implying this
What about calling him Butcher Biden? Or is the Irish MEP also a Russian troll?
We’re not talking about Reps though. We are talking about people who would usually vote for Dems, but because of their stance on Palestine either didn’t vote or voted third party. Can you show me examples of people on Lemmy who voted third party or abstained that said Reps would be better for Palestinians?
Did you read any of what you linked?
I’ve now read the entirety of the first 2 links, and have not seen a single mention of how Trump would be better for Palestine. If I’m wrong then please provide the quotes where they said Trump would be better.
All that is being said is that people feel disfranchised by the Dems and Kamala. Please actually read what’s there and stop seeing what you want to see. In fact the second link straight says:
I’m still voting for Harris, on the basis that change from public pressure is far more unlikely under Trump.
And they literally say it’s illogical to vote for Trump:
Despite Trump’s horrendous track record, he has gained in their support solely because of how Harris has campaigned. It’s not logical, but it’s hard to be when directly affected by the actions of the current administration and no prospect for change.
On the third I just did CTRL+F for “trump”, and there was nothing about him in regard to Palestine. I didn’t even bother with the 4th.
It’s kinda fascinating how every single comment section about another Trump news is filled with folks dogging on a minority who voted third-party and not the, what was it, third of the country (?) who didn’t vote at all.
Do you all really think that those who trully didn’t vote because of the Palestine would somehow change the final outcome? Were they that numerous?
This is a genuine question, I’m not trying to be snarky.
Given the highly political atmosphere of Lemmy, I have the impression that most users vote hard. Most in the liberal side were vocal about their desire to vote Kamala to prevent *gestures broadly* from happening. However, users from the tankie instances, amounting to a third of lemmy, regularly decried the democrat option, instead urging protest votes or abstention.
The world isn’t lemmy, lemmy is lemmy. And lemmy has plenty people to clown on for actively choosing this.
It’s not just lemmy, it’s something I’ve seen on other sites as well as traditional media (repeated by news anchors, commentators and even politicians). It’s just weird to me that the focus is on such a small number of voters instead of those who simply didn’t care enough/were prevented from voting/weren’t successfully convinced by the democrats.
Vote hard? The ‘liberal’ side was worried about gestures broadly at what’s actually happening in reality right this very moment. Lemmy isn’t an island, it’s a megaphone.
America has a FTTP voting system, so time has distilled its presidential election into to 2 real choices. This was one, and the milquetoast status quo party is the other. By that merit, not voting for one party helps the other party, though not as much as voting for the opposite. In our case, the opponent of the milquetoast party is the crypto Nazi party.
I’m not the other person you replied to, but personally I think there was a clear choice between the two candidates in regard to which one was better for the Palestinians given their track records. Granted, maybe not good enough in these voters opinions, given that they enabled a genocide in the first place and refused to swiftly correct that action.
Besides billionaires and straight, white, conservative, “Christian” men, I honestly don’t know who benefits from a Trump/Musk presidency as compared to a Harris/Walz presidency.
I get that democrats weren’t good enough, they rarely are in my opinion either, but I do consider them better than this. And yep, she and Biden enabled a genocide, no argument there. I even empathize with those that feel adamant that either we have justice all, or justice for none. But I think we are a little frustrated that in the fatalistic protest, Kamala’s opponents ensured the doom of not just Palestinians, but women, LGBT+ folk, and likely many more.
But hey, price of eggs and all too, right?
Frankly I’m getting sick and tired of every story about Gaza being filled with smug comments blaming everything on liberal Lemmy members. Biden was a shit candidate who was losing badly before Gaza ever happened. Harris was a golden opportunity to pivot the Biden campaign into something that stood a chance of winning and instead Harris ran on a campaign of “I’m exactly like Biden but a little younger” which is the most gobsmackingly stupid decision of a political campaign in at least a couple decades.
Harris didn’t lose because of Palestine. I mean it didn’t fucking help, but there were plenty of other reasons she lost. So can we please stop with all the annoying smug “are you happy with what you did?” comments? It’s getting really fucking old.
Now for what I actually wanted to say.
Besides billionaires and straight, white, conservative, “Christian” men, I honestly don’t know who benefits from a Trump/Musk presidency as compared to a Harris/Walz presidency.
Only billionaires are benefiting. Straight, white, conservative, Christian or even men, none of those groups in any combination is benefiting. They may not be getting shafted as hard as others are, but only billionaires are going to see anything even remotely positive out of this.
There’s a lot of frustration at the segment of the population who 1) vocally said that Harris would be just as bad as trump in regards to Gaza 2) loudly argued that failure to listen to them in regards to Gaza would cost the Democrats the election, and 3) said that anyone who was willing to vote for Harris despite not perfectly walking the line in regards to Gaza was a supporter of genocide. “The lesser of two evils is still a vote for genocide”, and “it’s not like it can be more genocide” are both things that have been said to me.
So, according to the people in question: yes, they are that numerous. I’m incredibly sad that I seem to have been right, but also fuck you to all the absolute assholes who accused me of supporting genocide because I’d rather the president get a middling cease fire and shamefully keep sending munitions to Israel than have us actively send troops to ethnically cleanse Gaza. Congrats! You got what you wanted! No more war in Gaza, because we’re going to finish it now.
Even if they’re in they’re not large enough to matter, electorally, they were consistently aggressively smug and superior to anyone who said that maybe trump wasn’t going to be the savior of the Palestinians, as evidence by his explicit words.
It’s cathartic to be mad at people who were condescending towards you when they were wrong, even if you’d rather not be right, purely because they called you a bad person for wanting the same thing but thinking their way to get it wouldn’t work.
Well, for point 2, they were kind of right. It’s mostly a self fulfilling prophecy, but when a sizable chunk of your voting block says “take this position if you want my vote” and then you take the opposite position it really shouldn’t come as a surprise if you subsequently lose the election. That 100% was on Harris.
Whether Harris would have been better than Trump (for Gaza) is perhaps a more interesting question. Ultimately Israel is going to be using their own troops for this not US troops because US troops aren’t going to go along with gunning down unarmed civilians in mass the way the Israeli troops will. Whether it’s Trump or Harris that wasn’t going to change. The biggest difference is just one of political posturing. Harris would have made disapproving statements and basically said “we’re very disappointed in Israel” while still sending the exact same weapons and funds Trump is sending. Maybe Israel would have played things more low key, maybe not, we’ll never know now. So point 1 is kind of a wash.
Point 3 is really a more abstract moral question I suppose. At what point does something cross over into “supporting genocide”. Does sending money to the Israeli government count? What about doing business with companies that do so? What about having the power to do something about it and instead choosing to do nothing? I think we can all agree that Trump absolutely supports genocide. The argument for if Harris did is far less concrete, and for people who voted for Harris (or I guess Trump for that matter) more nebulous still.
The real problem ultimately though is that none of this existed in a vacuum. If this was literally a referendum on how the US should respond to Israel that would be one thing, but that was such a tiny slice of a much bigger discussion. The biggest and most concerning of which was Trump essentially admitting that he was planning on staging a coup of the US government which meant no matter how the Gaza situation was going to play our Trump absolutely could not be let anywhere near the office of the president.
The election is over though, Harris lost because she ran a shit campaign on proven losing policy. People need to get over that and focus on actually dealing with the shit sandwich we’ve collectively been handed instead of continuing to point fingers and argue about whose fault it was.
It’s funny because millions of people did vote, but it was never counted. And unlike 2020… These uncounted votes are proven 🤷
Yes, because everyone who could have voted and didn’t bears responsibility for looking the other way while Trump gained the presidency.
And everyone who was vocal at any point about not voting for Harris for any reason is culpable for assisting Trump in gaining the presidency, and for influencing others to do the same.
See, that’s kind of what I’m talking about. Based on the results I’ve seen, all the votes for independent candidates combined amounted to less than 2% of all counted votes. Do you really think those 2% had a bigger impact on the end result than the 90 or so million of people who didn’t vote at all?
I’m not saying they had no impact, it just feels weird to focus so much on those who cared enough to take part in the democratic process while treating the rest as a secondary issue.
To clarify, this is just my observation based on internet comments and some news snippets I’ve seen. I understand things might look different IRL and from a perspective of someone in the middle of this madness.
Got it. It’s all the fault of people, not the inept dnc for this situation.
It’s equally fascinating how people like you think that only one group can be to blame for an electoral loss and that blame can’t be shared.
And if their protest vote changed nothing, what was the point of it?
You’re accusing me of something I never did. I’m asking because pretty much all the blame I’ve seen is put on those protest voters and the topic of non-voters rarely, if ever, comes up in these comments.
After seeing this sentiment expressed for the 50th time on similar threads, I’m more convinced than ever that: 1.) Many Democrats prefer beating up their left flank to actually opposing Republican ideology, 2.) Many Democrats are somehow pleased that the genocide is proceeding in this fashion because they both get to genocide Palestinians and beat up on their left flank. If Kamala had won, they would have only been able to enjoy half of these pastimes.
The real failure of the Democrats wasn’t even on Gaza. The day Biden won the election, I was saying that it didn’t matter, and that Trump or a similar Republican would be back in power in 2024. Why? Because it was abundantly obvious, even then, well before Gaza, that he wasn’t going to do the things that needed to be done to keep Trump out of power.
The 2020 election was the anomaly. DNC milquetoast centrism is a dead philosophy and has been politically nonviable since 2012 at the latest. Biden only won by a fluke in 2020 because Trump managed to so massively screw up the covid response. If covid hadn’t happened, or if Trump hadn’t actively screwed it up so much, he would have won in 2020.
Biden represents a philosophy that voters have rejected again and again. Yet the Democrats will never fucking learn.
Even if by some miracle Kamala had won, all that would have changed was that Trump or another fascist would have won in 2028, because again, she wasn’t going to do anything substantial.
People ultimately didn’t even stay home just because of Gaza. They stayed home because they were tired of voting for a failed party again and again, election after election, because “democracy was on the line.”
Here’s a hard fucking truth about democracy. For most people, democracy hasn’t been worth jack shit. Remember, the bottom 90% of the country doesn’t actually live in a democracy and hasn’t for decades. US democracy died a long time ago. People just got tired of propping up the facade and decided to finally let the rotten edifice collapse.
Want someone to blame for the current Trump term? Blame Biden for appointing Merrick fucking Garland. And it’s clear that even now, the Democratic leadership hasn’t learned a damn thing. The Democratic Party needs to be burned to ashes. It is irredeemable.
Why not be mad at Dems for not doing a better job and having better candidates?
That’s like Burger King serving poop burgers and you’re pissed that people stopped eating shit burgers cuz now Burger King is closed and they built a Chick Fil A in it’s place.
Yeah, alienating people for not supporting genocide is such an excellent move. Did you happen to work as a strategist with Harris campaign because this is right up their alley.
When you refuse to pick the lesser of two evils, what you are actually saying is you’re comfortable with either one.
When you refuse to see that picking evil will never lead to anything other than additional harm and suffering, you’re saying you’re comfortable with that.
How can you take issue with the person who chose another path and not the one you literally described as “evil?”
In a real life trolley problem, you are supposed to blame the ones driving the train and tying up people to tracks, not the guy pulling the lever.
Yes not voting was stupid, but it’s dumber to actually think they hold the blame. The dems won’t even acknowledge being pro genocide was a bad move and it’s because they feel confident their base has been manipulated to blame a scape goat.
What kind of change are we to expect if we can’t even be vocal about something so ridiculous as supporting genocide even after most of us held the line and voted for it anyways. Keep them accountable and stop giving them an easy out.
It’s a fucking war. Sometimes the only option you get is to put off losing. We didn’t do that, in no small part because of idiot idealists who apparently refuse to understand a concept so basic even chimps get it. Now, thanks to that and SO much more, even being hopeful is approaching the realm of deluded fantasy.
I have no problem alienating people who think their own precious idea of morality is somehow so sacrosanct it can’t be compromised even to actually save the lives they pretend to care about.
Kamala/Biden were already losing before the Palestine conflict started. Palestine did not cause Kamala to lose the election. She could have used Palestine as a signal that she intended to truly strike out in a new direction, but she chose not to do that.
Unfortunately, that kind of radical break from the past was the only hope any Democrat had in 2024. People have this weird view that 2024 is an anomaly. It’s not. 2020 was the anomaly. Trump only lost in 2020 because of covid. If not for covid, Trump would have easily won in 2020.
You might as well be blaming Gaza for the Libertarian party not winning. The existing Democratic party is as nonviable at the presidential level as the Libertarian party is. The current Democratic leadership is fundamentally incapable of winning a national presidential election. They literally are not capable of it. They got lucky in 2020 due to a disaster of historic proportions, but in normal times, they are not capable of wielding a candidate that will win a presidential election.
Only radical change and reform in the DNC can change this. And this is ultimately why scapegoating the handful of people who actually stayed home due to Gaza is counterproductive. If you think Kamala lost in 2024 due to Gaza, you’re going to be sorely, sorely disappointed in 2028 when another DNC centrist fails to win, even when the Gaza issue is no longer on the table.
“It’s a fucking war that’s why we need to give them bombs, arms, jets, cash, and our full support. It’s our only option”
Look, I get it, and I’d be grieving too if I openly supported such atrocities, and it all turned out to be for nothing, but you’re eventually going to find yourself standing alone with the other RadLibs as nobody finds diet-Republican ideals appealing.
I won’t deny that it was a stupid move by the dems, but at the same time choosing to abstain from one of the most important elections in US history because you don’t want to choose between the lesser of two evils is just naive. Life is literally full of choosing between the lesser of two evils, inside and outside of politics. And I understand that the situation in Gaza is fucked up, but I also know that by abstaining it only made the situation worse. I know its not 100% their fault as there were many factors that led to Trump winning, but I personally don’t think betting with other people’s lives is altruistic. I think it’s selfish.
Why because I don’t blindly support and fiercely defend a strategy that tanked nearly three Democratic presidential candidates in a row?
Nah, it’s definitely going to work the fourth time. I’m back on board.
Just a not even remotely friendly reminder that if you are American, eligible to vote and didn’t vote for Kamala then you actively voted for this. Actively voted for genocide. If you didn’t vote you’re even fucking worse because at least the Republicans were willing to openly say what horrible people they are. You just don’t care.
The United States is a failed country, a terrorist state and should be wrenched away from its people. You do not deserve to have a country that large with that much power when you are incapable of agreeing on a singular fucking thing. The United States should be forcibly broken up into at least 2, if not more, countries that can make up a trade bloc. This bullshit of getting everyone killed from coast to coast because of your pathetic patriotic ego of “wahhhhhhh but my countryyyyyyyyyy”
Fuck the United States.
I want to say I’m amazed at the shit fucking takes to justify awful choices that directly lead to a fascist overthrow in response to your comment. But these types love to justify their choices even though they directly lead to an open fascist takeover of our country because BoTh SiDeS bAd because they couldn’t be bothered to engage in harm reduction and are ok with Gaza getting glassed and a probable trans genocide at home.
Fuck anyone who uses genocide to justify the situation where we now get more genocide, they never actually cared about it in the first place aside from talking points. Either that, or talk is more important than action. Either way, their opinions are meaningless to me as I help my trans homies survive.
Yup. It is incredible at how deeply they’ve fallen for propaganda. Like Joe Biden being the one to send bombs like he personally wrapped the package. No one is blaming Congress, the people who actually approved the transfer of weapons. Nah. They wanna blame the President for not illegally stopping a transfer and opening himself up for impeachment like Trump did.
These people have no understanding of the US political system. They just scream and cry because they saw a few Youtube Shorts or TikToks and think they’re suddenly educated. That they can blame the figurehead for everything.
It is insane. Biden was the most progressive President the United States has had in decades and every single fuckwit bought the propaganda that the Right Wing was pushing. Was he perfect? God no. But he was miles better than Obama was but nah. Lets just scream about how awful he is because his hands were tied on Israel/Palestine, a problem that has absolutely no answer that doesn’t rip the fabric of someones world.
Children.
What’s the point of saying that here? If you’re an American who could vote and you’re on Lemmy there’s a 99.9% chance you voted blue. But even if that weren’t the case, all of this transpired while we had a Democrat in office, so it’s just a horrible continuation of an already existing trend
The US shouldn’t be considered a single country. The EU has way more in common between it’s members and acts more like one country than the US.
Breaking it up in 50 different states is probably gonna cause a war I see that.
Slowly the US (which has been a terrible country for a lot of people) is dying and pulling others down. The US has pushed it’s bullshit into way to many countries it is not even funny.
The contradiction between blaming voting blocs and then blaming rampant patriotism is not even remotely unironic.
The patriotism is what put them in this mess but the voting blocs are what is killing them. The United States had no business being the country that it is. It overextended its reach to an absurd extent. It tried to captiulate to too many people who all wanted to share in the nationlistic nonsense that America pumps out daily. Now the country is fragmented to hell. Too many people feel like that the country doesn’t represent them in anyway while also insisting that the United States should be another way. So they rally around two voting blocs that diverge and don’t represent really anyone because they’re either like the Democrats and spreading themselves too thin while making no one happy or the Republicans who actively ignore what their voters want the second they have power.
The country is schizophrenic.
I understand the emotional appeal to blaming individuals for their action/inaction, but the fault lies with the system of governance. You can try to herd cats until the cows come home, but it only leaves you frustrated and drained. We can only educate ourselves, and try to educate others.
Just a not even remotely friendly reminder that if you are American, eligible to vote and didn’t vote for Kamala then you actively voted for this.
Don’t try to spin logic. The red and blue party were both and has always been unified in supporting the fascist israel government in getting rid of gaza. People who chose not to play the rigged show the US government put up with elections is doing way less harm to humanity than the ones actively voting and supporting murderers.
Underrated comment here.
The Dems knew people were pissed with their support of the genocide in Israel, because several states had large percentages of people who voted ‘undecided’ in the Democratic primaries with the stated purpose of communicating that they wanted the US to stop sending WMD’s to Israel.
And, like usual, the Dems just ignored it, and opted instead to literally help Genocide Joe stack bodies until his final day in office. Kamala, when asked what she’d do differently, replied: “Nothing comes to mind.” Indulging she and Joe’s arrogance was given more consideration than child genocide. Think about that.
As much as people hate hearing ‘both sides’, this is very much a both sides issue.
Genocide Joe
And you have dismissed yourself from the conversation of adults. Thanks for that.
Y’all keep screaming about how he’s Genocide Joe for sending bombs to Israel. It just demonstrates how much Propaganda you’ve eaten for breakfast. Biden had no choice. Congress approved the weapons transfer. When Trump tried to stop military support to Ukraine, he was impeached. Apparently you didn’t bother to pick that up on your quest for screaming into the void.
Try actually educating yourself on how politics works instead of focusing on politically charged TikToks that are just angry about the situation. You haven’t learned anything. You’ve just absorbed propaganda.
Congratulations. You’re a useful idiot.
I don’t simp for him, fuck that scumbag.
But I think issues are more complicated than that, because for example Democrats actively supported the genocide too, so it’s not just 1 bad guy.
Correct. If you didn’t vote then you are spineless, a coward and lack any morals. You saw fascism coming and ignored what everyone said and then decided that it wasn’t worth the bare minimum effort of voting.
If you did not cast a ballot and you were eligible to do so then the things I want to say to you would get me banned from lemmy and probably arrested.
I mean my vote hasn’t mattered in the last 2 elections. My state hasnt flipped blue since Obama. There’s a lot of situations where voting is a waste of time. Making that not be true is what’s going to increase voter turnout, not trying to shame them for something they’re not responsible for
K. That doesn’t explain your nonsense about “If you didn’t vote then you voted”.
Correct. If you didn’t vote then you are spineless, a coward and lack any morals.
Not correct, if you didn’t vote you didn’t vote period.
People saying and persuading others to vote for murderers with blood on their hands are much bigger spineless coward with no morals.
Not engaging is also a choice, a very shit one in this case. You either contributed -1, 0, or +1 to a fascist takeover, sure 0 might be better than +1 but taking a neutral stance against such a dogshit prospect really puts the chair in armchair revolutionary, and doesn’t make you much better than the cheeto worshippers.
Not voting at minimum makes you more dumb than MAGA… At least they understand voting can bring changes.
Silence is consent when it comes to politics. Always has been; always will be.
Did you do anything to stop the violent ego maniac in the White House? No? Then you’ve cooperated with him.
All, please read this article (NYT gift link) - this IS and has been the strategy. Blitzkrieg policy while distracting the “stupid” media with outrageous, ultimately meaningless distractions.
From the ever flatulent Steve Bannon: “All we have to do is flood the zone. Every day we hit them with three things. They’ll bite on one, and we’ll get all of our stuff done.”
On what? It’s all crazy. “We’re going to invade Gaza” is just as insane as “we’re going to put 18 year olds in charge of the Treasury”, “eliminate the department of education” or “win the war on diversity”.
Yeah people keep saying “this is just a distraction” to, like, very single story. So what are they distracting from? Please tell us, because all of it is fucking awful.
Exactly what that they are doing is not a distraction? Because every single time they say or do anything, someone on Lemmy says it’s a distraction.
Now even announcing they will invade Gaza is a distraction?
Literally what is not a distraction?
“It seems that there might finally be a temporary peace in gaza… wait, it’s, it’s, BY GOD IT’S THE US COMING FROM BEHIND WITH A STEEL CHAIR”
Punk rock predicted this.
Propagandhi - Haille Sellasse Up Your Ass
“The West Bank, The Gaza Strip, soon will be parking lots for American tourists, and fascist cops”
