255 points

Utterly delusional to think any of that would work. At every step you would just get your face beaten in. When the cops come they too will just beat your face in.

Thinking you can castle doctrine a squad of ICE agents is equally delusional. You could probably take a couple out but you’d still die in the end and be risking the lives of anyone that lives with you.

The only solution is well known and already in practice in places like LA: have an active community response force that will show up and intimidate and harass the ICE agents. All of the previous delusions assume you, alone, can stop an ICE with just your privledge.

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89 points

No badges, no uniforms, driving unmarked cars and wearing masks? I think any person could successfully argue in court that they thought they were being kidnapped by criminals.

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133 points

You never get to court, that’s the point the previous comment is making.

As an individual trying to stand up to them you’re somewhere between being either completely ineffectual or making the situation worse. Having the law on your side doesn’t matter because it’s impossible for you to summon the enforcement of it fast enough to help you, assuming they even would.

A local community response that will mobilize and appear in your neighborhood in seconds is basically the only way to respond quickly with enough force for them to care about.

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24 points

The people in LA Matt have been tracking and following the ice vehicles to some extent. We need that everywhere.

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4 points

Yes, but I have a justifiable defense.

If I’m at risk of being thrown in a hole and forgotten about, I see that as my life is at risk. I will demand them to identify and if they don’t, that’s where the 2A comes in. At that point I’m literally fighting for my life however you look at it.

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29 points

You’re probably right, but you’d have to make it to court. Not everyone does…

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18 points

You’re still thinking as if due process and legality matters

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18 points

If ICE is coming for you, then you’re not seeing court. If you’re some interfering bystander then maybe you will. But then you’re plan to lie to the judge and say you didn’t know? The judge will see through you’re bullshit immediately.

Like that could only work if you actually were ignorant and even then you’d have a long up hill legal battle to establish the precedent that its sometimes OK to shoot law enforcement. IANAL but I think thats a liberty the state has never been conceded.

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18 points

If you live in a society where masked gunmen, who are answerable to NO ONE can black-bag and kidnap you off the street, then it’s time for folks to have an honest talk with themselves about what kind of society they really live in.

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8 points

court

:(

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32 points

There were posters stapled to phone polls in my area with what to do when ice is around. Demand id, demand a warrent etc etc.

The next day there were news stories of ice not even caring about any of that.

They do not care about the law. Lock your door and hide. If you’re a neighbor tell them no one’s home. That’s about as much as you can do as an individual.

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24 points

Folks also need to be tearing down the local deathcamps, and rescuing the people still alive in them.

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18 points

Tbh this is my plan if I see them, but starting with the calling 911 about the masked gunmen abducting my neighbor.

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8 points
*

You know the cops watch the news too and will immediately guess what your up to. At best this is just trolling the cops. At worst you’re calling back up for ICE.

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3 points

What I’m up to? Trolling? PD and feds don’t work on deportation together. I call a dispatcher and tell them I see an armed abduction, they’re going to send someone.

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It happened at one of the protests. Someone asked one of the officers for their badge number and got their head battered.

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14 points

show up and intimidate and harass

Well, show up and exercise first amendment rights certainly!

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7 points

Second*

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2 points

possible alternative would be to slash their car’s tires. don’t let them “get away” with this.

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2 points

Suicide by ICE not even my third choice but ya that’s where discourse is at rn huh

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10 points

Sometimes you resist even if you know you will lose. At least it spends their time and exposes them to lawsuits.

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5 points

If you want to be as annoying as possible out of spite or martyrdom I can respect that. But that’s what it’d be.

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1 point
*

yes, I know that anyone doing anything but whatever nonsense they’re told is a dissonant and personally conflicted thing for you. Sorry about that. Its not a comment on your choices, just a statement of my own. I couldnt care less what you do or why-- I’ve seen your comment history over time. We never agree on much. Truly-- Good luck to you, centrist.

Life isnt easy, and I dont begrudge anyone not aligning to my worldview. Maybe what looks to be nonsensical to me is actually the right way-- I wouldnt be shocked to be wrong, compared to a centrist anyway. I’d be surprised if a right winger were right about much of anything.

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3 points
*

If you can’t stop them, taking as many out with you as you can is not the worst option.

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167 points

Ideally while having someone who isn’t you record the interaction, so when they drop you to the pavement and your phone ‘regrettably’ gets smashed to pieces, there’s still some external record of what went down.

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78 points

Livestreaming the encounter could also potentially work. But yeah, ideally you probably want as many different camera angles and recordings as you can.

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17 points

You’ll probably just get shot

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11 points

On a Livestream? Maybe, but at least it’ll be archived on your social media account.

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28 points

ACLU blue

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29 points
Deleted by creator
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2 points

What’s a good alternative!?

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118 points

They wear the masks so they can’t be identified. They don’t want their kids friends and school friends to know that what they do.

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42 points
*

I don’t think they care what their family thinks of them … I think they care about how angry democratically minded citizens see them as unidentified fascists hiding behind masks

If what you are doing is legal, legitimate and moral … then you never have to mask your name or hide your face

If what you are doing is illegal, immoral and highly dangerous to everyone including you and your family and you know it … then you are more apt to want to hide your identity and avoid having to deal with the repercussions of what you know is wrong

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22 points

If what you are doing is legal, legitimate and moral … then you never have to mask your name or hide your face

Disregard this, hide your face at protests people

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-9 points
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14 points

That’s gonna be a non starter. If you ever have a thought that starts with “target kids” keep it to yourself and work on it.

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-2 points
*

It didn’t start there. It took 30 years to get past “we’ve tried everything to teach them to be human” and now it’s time to check what’s coming up on the list.

And we know one place they definitely won’t charge in guns blazing is to protect kids in schools. We’ve seen it twice now, in both Uvalde and Broward counties. If Texas and Florida won’t do it, nobody will.

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101 points

If a person impersonating a cop spouted out some random digits when I asked for their badge and serial number, I doubt I would be able to tell the difference.

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52 points

That’s what the call is for- you ask the local office if they can confirm that that officer is actually on patrol, exists, etc. Idk how that would work for ICE though; I don’t think you can just call up the federal ICE headquarters.

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49 points

That’s not what the post says. It says call 911 if they refuse. It gives no guidance on what to do if they respond.

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15 points

At least with 911 on the phone you can ask to be connected somewhere who can verify

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2 points

The current state of things is that they cover their faces and refuse to give any ID. Even fake ID.

I think if you followed the post suggestion and the result was that ICE would give fake names and fake badge-numbers, that would actually be positive because “agents lie about their identity” is something new and interesting. Then the strategy will need to change, but in the mean time it was useful.

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-68 points

Bruh… It’s like 630 in the morning where I’m at. Take your non constructive bullshit somewhere else.

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9 points

Exactly. I had some undercover (or plain clothes I guess?) cops show up at my workplace looking for one of my guys. I asked to see their badge and they showed me a badge but honestly, that’s only gonna stop someone who didn’t plan far enough ahead. The badge could have been from the dollar store and I would have a hard time refuting…

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75 points

Dial 911 first, and say there’s a masked person with a gun. No need to qualify that shit.

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29 points

My thoughts exactly. You think gestapo is gonna wait patiently while you call 911?

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10 points

If you don’t, you’re dead or at least on the ground before you finish that first question.

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19 points

You don’t have to talk to a masked gunman or engage with them in any way to call 911.

If you see masked people with guns, call 911. If they’re authorized to be there, there’s no harm in calling it in.

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2 points

I think we’re all agreeing. My comment might have been ambiguous.

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THE POLICE PROBLEM

!thepoliceproblem@lemmy.world

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    The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.

    99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it’s not on this page.

    When cops are caught breaking the law, they’re investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers’ names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.

    When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with ‘law enforcement experience’ and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It’s called “Wandering Cops.”

    When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: “testilying.” Yet it’s almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.

    Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don’t, they aren’t cops for long.

    The legal doctrine of “qualified immunity” renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past ‘qualified immunity’ is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.

    All this is a path to a police state.

    In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.

    Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.

    That’s the solution.

♦ ♦ ♦

Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.

♦ ♦ ♦

RULES

Real-life decorum is expected. Please don’t say things only a child or a jackass would say in person.

If you’re here to support the police, you’re trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.

Saying cops ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They’re about killing people; we’re not.

Please don’t dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.

Please also abide by the instance rules.

It you’ve been banned but don’t know why, check the moderator’s log. If you feel you didn’t deserve it, hey, I’m new at this and maybe you’re right. Send a cordial PM, for a second chance.

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r/BadCopNoDonut/

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Identity Project

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INFO

A demonstrator’s guide to understanding riot munitions

Adultification

Cops aren’t supposed to be smart

Don’t talk to the police.

Killings by law enforcement in Canada

Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom

Killings by law enforcement in the United States

Know your rights: Filming the police

Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of ‘I can’t breathe’ (as of 2020)

Police aren’t primarily about helping you or solving crimes.

Police lie under oath, a lot

Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak

Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street

Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States

So you wanna be a cop?

When the police knock on your door

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ORGANIZATIONS

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