I want to roll my eyes every time I see somebody take this stance, not simply because it is tiresome and it takes no courage to say, but mostly because it ignores the context. Every time. It not only overlooks how and why neocolonialism lead to Hamas, it overlooks why Hamas would resort to crude tactics like taking hostages (as if the Zionist régime was always open to dialogue), it overlooks why a substantial percentage of Palestinian adults support Hamas, it overlooks the decades of atrocities that Zionist authorities have been committing against the Palestinians since day one, and most of all, it overlooks the overwhelming amount of power that the Zionist ruling class has in this situation.

My response: fine, you don’t have to like Hamas, but to focus on condemning it repeatedly is to lose sight of the very conditions and the ruling class that gave rise to Hamas in the first place; it’s a bland inaction that gets us nowhere. If you say ‘Hamas is the real problem’ or ‘Hamas is just as bad as the IDF’ then I’m afraid that you have missed the point completely.

3 points

I have an imagined response, I don’t know if it is intelligible though…

Blaming Palestinians for October 7 is like blaming Afghans for the 9/11 attack. 9/11 was a response by one unaffiliated with Afghanistan to decades of violent military interference to multiple sovereign nations’ agency and, compared to the actions of the US Government, the response was hardly measurable on the same scale of “terror”.

permalink
report
reply
31 points

9/11 was orchestrated by Wahhabist Saudis with the knowledge of the CIA so that the US could invade Afghanistan and Iraq. Investigative Journalist Kit Klarenberg proved that the perpetratorshad relationship to CIA.

Hamas is a people’s movement, not Wahhabist, and literally decolonized their territory by expelling occupiers.

It’s a harmful comparison that reflects the larger community of leftist ignorance about the history of imperialism in West Asia and the Islamic Resistance.

permalink
report
parent
reply
7 points

Ooof

so if I’m understanding the correctly the point you’re making, the article you linked, and the smidgen I read of the nature of nature of Wahhabism, I’m comparing two events that are similar only in that they involved humans.

One was a strategic response by those involved in a conflict, the other was astroturfed theater.

permalink
report
parent
reply
7 points

Yes that is accurate.

permalink
report
parent
reply
17 points

To be honest, Hamas won the 2006 election.

permalink
report
reply
16 points

Not sure what you meant to imply but this doesn’t contradict anything in the OP.

permalink
report
parent
reply
34 points

I’d say it’s in addition to the OP.

Hamas is of the people. They aren’t from a different class or country or region or anything, they’ll all just Gaza residents that lost everything and chose to join up. A true guerilla movement and the legitimate elected government at the same time.

If you say “I support Palestinians, but I’m against Hamas” you need to reconcile with the fact that Palestinians in Gaza support Hamas.

permalink
report
parent
reply
16 points

It’s alluded to:

it overlooks why a substantial percentage of Palestinian adults support Hamas

permalink
report
parent
reply
13 points

I mean: No matter what the outside world thinks, the basic facts cannot be denied.

permalink
report
parent
reply
7 points

How many elections have they won since 2006?

permalink
report
parent
reply

every single one.

permalink
report
parent
reply
28 points

Also, since October 7th, the entire world has been watching Palestine. This is what had to be done in order to bring any overwhelming attention to the conditions that Palestinians have been living under since 1948 and prior to that honestly. I’ve been saying “What’s sad is that it has had to come to this” instead of focusing on Hamas bad with people.

permalink
report
reply
40 points

Same energy as “hate the government not the people”

permalink
report
reply
-7 points

Why though? In its current state, whether they (the people) support their government or not, they don’t have a say in political decisions made by said government, so the differentiation is really important. Otherwise, if we treat them as one in the same, we would make a mistake of believing in “collective punishment”, which is the exact tactic Isn’treal uses.

permalink
report
parent
reply
29 points

because usually they mean by this is that they actually hate the people too

permalink
report
parent
reply
17 points

peoples who say “hate the government not the people” usually do hate the people too. It’s like when incels say they are “nice”.

permalink
report
parent
reply
7 points

Oh, okay, got it. I just don’t remember people using this rhetoric before, or might have missed it.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

What about class division? Can you oppose your government while supporting your people?

permalink
report
parent
reply

As far as I’m concerned, if you oppose Hamas but support the IOF then you’re either a scumbag or absolutely ignorant. The IOF have been terrorizing the people of Palestine for decades, Gaza included. Long before October 7, the IOF had been shooting children in Gaza.

permalink
report
reply

Comradeship // Freechat

!comradeship@lemmygrad.ml

Create post

Talk about whatever, respecting the rules established by Lemmygrad. Failing to comply with the rules will grant you a few warnings, insisting on breaking them will grant you a beautiful shiny banwall.

A community for comrades to chat and talk about whatever doesn’t fit other communities

Community stats

  • 41

    Monthly active users

  • 1K

    Posts

  • 12K

    Comments

Community moderators