I love how mad this is making people.
He’s the Pope. Obviously he’s going to want peace. What the hell do people expect? He doesn’t care if land is Russian or Ukrainian as long as people stop dying. The geopolitics of the situation are simply not part of his ideology.
Interesting that he chooses to say the people having a genocide done on them need to surrender (which they’ve literally done and been shot anyway btw) and not the perpetrators of said genocide needing to stop.
Probably because the Pope is and always has been a piece of shit
Interesting that he chooses to say the people having a genocide done on them need to surrender
Huh he didnt say this about the people in Gaza, what are you talking about?
Actually he did say the same for Gaza: https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2024-03/pope-francis-angelus-appeal-ceasefire-gaza-war-israel-palestine.html
War crimes like the forcible transfer of children (i.e. genocide) are for the ICJ to deal with. As a religious leader his prerogative is to reduce suffering and death, by whatever means necessary.
More importantly, Russia can keep this up far longer than Ukraine and he doesn’t want us to fight to the last Ukrainian.
I remember when they said they said they were going to charge Russia with war crimes and then when they investigated they found Russia wasn’t doing any war crimes, but in the process discovered they themselves were actually doing quite a few of their own. Every right wing accusation is a confession.
Right, a smaller country can never successfully resist a larger one. That’s why Vietnam has been under US occupation (or was it French? I can never remember for some reason) all these years since Ho Cho Minh wisely surrendered to spare his people’s lives.
Well, if Pope is called “piece of shit” for calling to negotiations to prevent more people dying, then who are you, who’s ok with war going on? Entire shit?
This only makes sense under the assumption that if the land becomes Russian, the dying will stop. And that’s not guaranteed. Dropping down from dying to violence - that’s probably guaranteed to occur for a while if the land becomes Russian.
Why wouldn’t the dying stop? Russia is going to need as many workers as possible to rebuild and make up for military losses, on top of the preexisting population stagnation that was already dwindling their workforce. The worst case scenario imo is population transfer, and that’s not good, but I don’t see Russia being able or willing to waste a population boost from Ukraine.
Ah shit the goddamned Pope is a Russian troll
Or maybe people that think Ukraine should negotiate are actually just normal people that can analyze facts…
We’re not paying Dalai Lama to stay quiet. Have him say “to the last Ukrainian” immediately!
Yeah, he’s old and didn’t use the happiest words… but the Vatican clarified he didn’t mean “unconditional surrender” and instead only meant “negotiate a peace deal”.
AFAIU (and also AFAIC - “as far as I care”) It’s not entirely clear yet if the Pope suggests that Ukraine should give up territory in exchange for peace (and what about reparations?) or if he just means “be good people and make peace” (which would be much more in line with how he usually talks). I don’t think whatever the Pope thinks will really be of much consequence given how geopolitically relevant this war is (“The Pope? How many divisions has he got?”)
This whole news/argument serves as great marketing for the TV program where the the interview will be broadcasted (which I’d assume is not unintentional)
I wonder if he would say the same thing if Russia attacked the Vatican.
Of course not, he’s trying to make the point that it’s easy to tell someone to surrender and give their enemy everything if it’s not your thing.
Would you surrender half your country to Russia?
The alternative is fight a battle you have no chance of winning, all the while the area gets completely fucked up pretty much permanently.
There was opportunity for a peaceful resolution and they turned it down because they thought they could win, then the west (which had been egging them on up to that point) suddenly fucked off to do a genocide in the middle east leaving them high and dry.
At that point you would have no choice but to admit you fucked up and would have to accept worse peace terms. This isn’t a video game where winning is the only thing that matters; people’s lives are on the line. The longer you fight the more people that die, and for what?
