Do you miss phones with replaceable batteries? By 2027, you won’t anymore because, by law, almost every smartphone will have them again.

170 points

Remember that consumers expect certain things from smartphones nowadays, which will mean that OEMs can’t just go back to the old way of doing things. An IP68 rating would be very difficult to obtain while still offering a premium-feeling device with an easily replaceable battery, for example. These are hurdles OEMs will need to get over to be in compliance.

this is straight-up BS. there were many phones with ip68 and user-replacable batteries back when sealing the battery in a phone was frowned upon. not all but many.

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83 points

The term “premium-feeling” does a lot of heavy lifting in that paragraph, one might almost say that it’s a bit subjective.

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40 points

It’s true though. I’ve become very accustomed to the premium experience of being forced to use premium apps and services that don’t work half the time in a very premium manner.

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15 points

I think it would be pretty premium if I could have a spare battery on the charger for a quick swap rather than relying on a cable to charge my phone.

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1 point

Move over 2010. Who uses a cable?

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3 points

What they really mean is “very slightly thinner than the previous generation or current rival because we think that’s a super marketable thing still even though we’ve reached the practical limit where it no longer makes sense to go thinner.”

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5 points

Meanwhile the phone can’t lie flat on its back because the camera protrudes.

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36 points

I have a two-way radio which floats in water and has a replaceable battery. It’s just excuses. However I do believe they got rid of replaceable batteries to save on space and thickness of the devices.

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10 points

Thickness is the only concern I have. I’d love to be able to replace the battery in my iPhone safely and easily, but I don’t really want to give up having a phone that’s less than 10mm thick.

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10 points
*
Deleted by creator
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5 points

Thickness of your phone is now dictated by cameras. Because of focal lengths and what not, they need to be a certain size, that’s why they’re always with an overhang.

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5 points
*

The size thing is just another excuse.

There were/are phones with replacable batteries that are thinner than most current phones. Some were 7.5mm and even less.

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5 points

The main factor to consider in making an ultrathin phone in 2023 has nothing to do with the battery. It’s the requirement for a certain level of build quality to be suitable for end consumers. At some point we just need to develop new materials, because we can’t make it any more ultrathin without it also becoming ultrafragile using the materials available.

It hasn’t really been a focus since we realised back around the iPhone 5 that making these sweeping compromises for thinness was yielding diminishing returns and causing other problems. Today that’s still the thinnest mainline iPhone, only the SE and 12 Mini are thinner. 13 mini is thicker, and there is no 14 mini.

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5 points

I think you’re right. They then quickly learned that it’s in their best interest to have a sealed system. Makes it cheaper to obtain higher IP ratings. Sells more devices. It obviously did nothing that hurt sales. Samsung is making an IP68 rated device with replaceable battery and still takes SD cards right now. It’s only $600 to boot making it handedly cheaper than flagships. So why isn’t it what everyone’s pointing at in these threads? Cause the majority of people, even in these very threads, aren’t buying it. These are not the factors that decided buying a phone. Otherwise removable batteries, SD cards and 3.5mm jacks would still be ubiquitous, but here we are.

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2 points

Honestly, I never buy a phone without an audio jack and sd card.

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The Galaxy Xcover 6 pro is a box full of lies in terms of IP68 rating and associated warranty. I have written about my utterly disappointing experience of getting caught in a storm a couple of months after I bought it quite extensively elsewhere. Save to say I will not be buying another samsung product. It seems they have forgotten how they used to make that design work.

Great phone, just not waterproof at all.

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5 points
*

I have an old LG V20 (released in 2016) with a removable battery that’s just 7.6mm thick. By comparison the Iphone 14Max is 7.9mm thick, the Samsung S23 Ultra - 8.9mm and the Oneplus 11 - 8.5mm.

IMO the purpose of non-replaceable batteries is (just like everything else) profit. Companies want to push us to replace the entire phones every two years rather than just the batteries. They’ve been remarkably effective at doing just that.

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14 points

I had a Galaxy S5 which I think was IP67 (someone fact check me on that), and a removable battery. It definitely didn’t have a premium feel, and it got eviscerated in reviews for that. That didn’t bother me though. Though, the backing cracked and the little plastic clips broke off rather quickly. I think if they had a metal backing that was held on by a regular (albeit tiny) Philips head screw(s), they could have a user replaceable battery on a premium phone with IP68 no problem.

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5 points

I had a Galaxy S5 which I think was IP67 (someone fact check me on that)

According to wiki, you remembered right!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_S5

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5 points
*

It’s mentioned in this thread here that there is the xCover model series which have user replaceable batteries still. The 6 pro was released just last year So much for manufacturers having to figure things out from ground up bollocks

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2 points

I have that device. It’s definitely a thick boi but in no way does it not feel “not premium”. I vastly prefer the grippy texturized back cover and sides to slippery glass/aluminium. It’s one of the few devices that feels great in had without a case.

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2 points

It definitely didn’t have a premium feel, and it got eviscerated in reviews for that. That didn’t bother me though.

Most cellphone covers on these premium phones don’t feel all that premium themselves, so it’s ok if the phone doesn’t, either.

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2 points

Philips head screw(s)

Nooooooooo

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2 points

Pretty much all Androids I have taken apart were Phillips head screws. iPhones have like 5 slightly different types in each phone, it’s nonsense

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13 points

One of them being the Galaxy S5 (I think)

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17 points
*

You’re correct, though the Galaxy S5 is a bad example. Tthe device looked and felt like a Fischer Price toy. It had flaps everywhere, was annoying to use, and even had a billion software notifications to keep reminding you to monitor and close said flaps. Nowadays we can certainly do better.

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12 points

Yeah, I scuba dive and have multiple pieces of equipment with replacable batteries that are good down to 500+ ft. Not only do some of them get opened frequently, and without replacing seals or anything, but they’re also all way cheaper than my phone! Anyone who says you can’t easily meet an IP68 rating on a phone with replacement batteries is full of shit.

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1 point

Do those have the same size and weight requirements a phone has? This isn’t about “can this be done”, it is a question about “which compromises do we have to accept to make this happen”.

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9 points

There still are today. Samsung Xcover series.

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4 points

Yeah my 2023 XCover 6Pro has a removable battery and ip68 rating. You wouldn’t be able to tell the back cover comes off. The only clue that something’s off is that it’s texturized plastic instead of glass or aluminium.

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78 points
*

Producers got away with going to non-replaceable batteries because “most” people replace their phone before the battery wears out. Only a portion of consumers have a problem with it.

I’m sure there’s a few of us that can comfortably get six years off a phone. In fact the phone I’m currently using is coming up on three years. I could probably get another three years out of it, but I’m going to have to replace it soon because of battery wear.

Non-replaceable batteries are bad for the consumer and bad for the environment. It forces obsolescence putting more financial strain on consumers and increases environmental impact with higher production and waste.

A phone replaced before three years could be sold second hand with a battery replacement. Otherwise consumers could keep a phone twice as long. So they’re basically doubling the rate of production and waste to squeeze as much money as possible out of the consumer. Then there’s zero regard for the environment. But you know that’s typical of how corporations do business, rape the Earth, screw the consumer. We have to keep a leash on these guys.

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1 point

Yes yes, but companies mandate is to maximize profits and have constant growth. All those things you’re mentioning sound very anti-capitalist. The elite would have a hard time taking all the wealth and keeping everyone as slaves.

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1 point
*

You are right. My iPhone XR is around 4 or 5 years old, and now I need to charge it in the afternoon if I have used it during work to spend some time. I guess that in a year I’ll have to replace it because the battery will last even less.

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1 point

I just barely replaced my galaxy s8, and it wasn’t the battery that became the issue, it was the lack of any new software updates.

I was starting to have software compatibility issues, where installing new apps would say “android verision x is not supported”. Also, I’m pretty sure it was getting any security patches from either samsung or upstream google.

I’m now looking at repurposing the s8 into a security camera since I think it’s a waste to just throw it in a drawer.

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3 points

I had an old galaxy a5 with a badly degraded battery sitting around. A few weeks ago I had nothing better to do so I opened it (breaking the glass back in the process because of how strongly it was glued), ripped the battery out and soldered a charging cable straight to the phone’s battery contacts. It now lives on a phone stand in my car, connected to a bluetooth OBD2 scanner and I use it to show a couple of additional gauges like oil temperature, instant fuel economy and engine load while driving. The 12v output provides just enough power for the phone to reliably run and with the lack of battery I don’t have to worry about it exploding if it sits in the sun for hours. I haven’t found a way to make it turn on as soon as it gets power, so it’s mildly annoying to turn it on manually every time I start the car, but I can live with that.

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2 points

That’s pretty clever I’m starting to think of doing that to my old Google pixel to play mp3s

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-16 points

While I do agree that we need more modular phones, laptops, etc. having a replaceable battery would prevent phones to be fully water proof.

But I do agree with you, I have a 2-year old phone and I already experience the battery degradation. I would most likely use this phone for another year, max two, but then would be pissed by how often I need to charge it and start looking into purchasing a new one.

Planned obsolescence is definitely a thing that enriches corporations

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42 points

There are so many ways you can waterproof a phone and have a user replaceable battery and still keep it thin and sleek. But that doesn’t sell a new iPhone to someone every 2 years. It’s why anytime Apple, or any company like them, spouts off about how green they are, I know they’re full of shit. They intentionally cause so much waste it’s insane.

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5 points

I wish they had some truly modular phones. The phone I am currently using is quite bulky compared to slim model phones and even a lot of Iphones, I don’t care. I don’t see why I shouldn’t be able to swap put almost every component other than the screen, it’s not like the phone frame themselves have really changed much from the original Iphones. Battery, Storage, Processor, RAM, Speaker, Receiver…even the camera. I see no reason why those couldn’t be part of modular systems.

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23 points

They could just incorporate a gasket + screws. There are a ton of waterproof devices that have replaceable batteries.

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16 points
*

I don’t think an actual waterproof phone even exists. They’re water resistant.

My Samsung Galaxy XCover 6Pro has a removable battery (and a headphone jack) and it’s ip68 rated. You wouldn’t be able to tell from the outside that the back cover comes off.

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8 points

The Galaxy S5 active is evidence that you’re just wrong. Classic removable battery but still IP67.

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6 points
*

Waterproof ratings are all nonsense anyways IMO. The way appliances are tested does not take into consideration human error.

Gotta drop the phone a couple times onto concrete to simulate how morons like me treating it, then check its water resistance.

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1 point

The question I’ve been asking, since this whole water resistance thing became a trend, is why do we even need water resistant phones in the first place?

We survived just fine with flip phones, walkmans, Gameboys, pagers, etc that had no water resistance.

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2 points

I love water proof phones, it’s a massive reduction in anxiety and means I don’t have to avoid bringing it into the bathroom.

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2 points

The yellow sony walkman was waterproof.

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1 point

While I manage ok without (but would appreciate the feature) I know several people who have destroyed too many phones by accidentally dropping it into some sort of water to ever want anything but a waterproof one.

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1 point

I don’t really mind that my battery doesn’t work well. It lasts through the day, though I’m perpetually at 40% or less and I don’t use it that much. If it’s really a problem then a battery bank charge mid day totally fixes it.

However, if I could replace the battery for $50 I would.

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64 points
*

Its NOT just smartphones

Its damn near everything!

Electric cars, other electronics etc

Some are just not “user replacable” (such as a cars batteries)

this law will change all iPhones. It will also change all tablets, laptops, EVs, e-bikes, and anything else with a rechargeable battery

Headphones, gaming mice, gaminh controllers. Its gonna be great

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21 points

The big one at the moment - at least in the UK and IMHO - is disposable vapes. I see them everywhere, just tossed on the ground or at the side of the road. The reason I see them is because of their flashing blue LEDs still running, meaning there’s at least a working battery and support circuitry in there. It’s disgusting that something like that is tolerated. I’m hopeful that the requirement to have user-replacable batteries will eliminate them by making them uneconomical compared to standard vapes.

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12 points

I don’t understand why disposable vapes are even legal at all. I mean we banned friggin’ plastic straws but this thing is fine?! Who even came up with such a terrible product in current times?

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4 points

The EU by going after the self-mixing market. Bullshit like allowing duties on liquid that doesn’t even contain nicotine so you end up paying through your nose for flavoured glycerine/propylene glycol mix. Limiting nicotine-containing liquids to 20mg/ml max, and 10ml bottles at that, while there were never any issues with what was legal here (Germany) under ordinary toxic substance laws (without being a chemist): 50mg/ml in any size you bloody want (usually 100ml because it degrades once you open it).

Before those laws the market was largely modular systems, tank and mod separate, plenty of replaceable batteries, with all that bullshit added on vaping sensibly became so expensive that people went “meh, can just as well use a pre-built”.

The UK actually were the sensible ones in that area, but I guess the market shift reached them by sheer force of Chinese production capacity.

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51 points

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again (someone else definitely said this before me) I’m totally fine with a user replaceable battery but I don’t really need a “hot swappable” battery. Don’t you guys remember the old memes where an android phone is dropped and the Lego brick breaking sound effect is used from the Lego video games. I’m ok with a semi sealed device for water resistance and what not. It would just be nice to be able to replace the battery when the time comes

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9 points

The memes I don’t remember but … I’m old. And…

Reading this gave me an instant flashback of dropping my old Ericsson on a train and it just … lost all its parts! Man that was 😱

Yes I had to hunt for: the battery, the battery cover and the SIM card! In those days the latter was bigger than we have now but very expensive.

To be honest: hot swappable wasn’t all that cool or user friendly at all. You had the dropping issue, the dirt and grime got in the cracks causing it to loose contact. Just like a mouse ball back in the day. All that and … when it was time to change it, never found a replacement and the phone was just outdated anyway.

Now all those different chargers we had? That was the real nightmare. Man! Very glad that is solved, even with the mess usb-c is.

I fear this is again one of those rules politician’s make without any knowledge; or they just ignore reality. Per usual.

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1 point

just the first one I found but basically this . and I feel that with the move to USB C or even with iphones and the lightning cable. You either have one of those two so it’s pretty nice now compared to back then

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1 point

Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/shorts/9mGkOCd4hz8?feature=share

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.

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3 points

The legislation allows that. It just says that batteries have to be available and replaceable by non-specialists using standard tools. Think a small torx screwdriver, maybe a spudger, no glue type of situation and definitely no soldering or crypto-locking batteries to the mainboard and CPU so even specialists can’t replace stuff without signing their first-born to the manufacturer (hello Apple).

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1 point

@barsoap

@Raglesnarf @technology

Some make the argument that batteries are already replaceable if you get the right tools, but it’s not even a matter of making it possible.

I think it’s more about making it so you aren’t voiding your warranty and that the option is there.

Otherwise you replaced your battery and they decide they will never offer any support for your phone because you dared touch it.

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Hi there! The links in your response are not clickable for Lemmy users, here are the clickable versions: !technology@lemmy.world

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2 points

I can’t really remember if that was an issue for my S4. I’m sure it happened like once or twice but I don’t really drop my phone and I’m sure the majority of people nowadays have a case that will pretty much prohibit the battery cover from opening. What I DO remember is keeping a spare battery in my wallet and anytime my phone was low (I’m terminally addicted and 3 hours of screen on time was the best I got back then) just popping that bad boy in. Was a great feature and took a lot of stress off of me in the days when battery life was terrible. I hope they can revive a feature like that in a modern premium phone.

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2 points

I had a Galaxy s4! and I remember I bought 2 extended batteries (about 3000mah but they were the same size so who knows) and a wall charger for them from ZeroLemon. I would hot swap the batteries instead of charging my phone. it was such a convenient system I felt so cool 🤓

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3 points

@Raglesnarf @Purplexingg I did the same!

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2 points

I really miss hot swappable batteries. Just carry a small spare battery and swap it when needed. So much now convenient than needing to plug it in to top up.

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-11 points

You can do that now with a heat gun and some very basic tools.

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28 points

That’s an overstatement. It takes a lot of work for some phones and you risk damaging it. Not everyone is able to do it even with the right tools. We need to have a solution so that anyone can do it

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4 points

I literally bought an iFixIt kit to open my phone up (for a screen replace rather than a battery swap, but still) and could not get it open after an hour+ of trying. I’d definitely believe it’s because I’m inexperienced in modern phone repair, but I’m not a generally unsavvy person. I build computers and mess around with tech as a hobbyist. I had to take it to a shop and return the kit. It’s definitely not an easy process for some devices.

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10 points

You can do that now with a heat gun and some very basic tools.

A heat gun is a specialized tool. That’s the problem.

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1 point

It’s really not a specialized tool.l at all, there are a million things you can use a heat gun for. And they’re like $20 at Harbor Freight.

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-1 points

A hair dryer?

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10 points

Change this to “you can do that now with…some very basic tools” and we have a deal. It should only require a “normal” screwdriver, nothing outside of tips such as cross, flat, hex, torx and which I’m forgetting. Basically none of that Y shaped bullshit or the torx-looking tip with the little raised dot. Fuck all of that shit. And of course no heat gun requirement. I don’t think it’s asking a ton to be able to remove like 10 small screw (or whatever it takes) and pull an old battery out, insert a new one. I like to believe we can figure this out as a species…or rather, I know we already CAN but it’s just profitable for all the manufacturers to basically build in a “phone death date” because they know the battery will shit itself under 4-5 years and be reduced considerably in only the first 2. Make it a hassle/expensive to replace and force upgrades. Bad for the world and bad for consumers. At least those precious investors get their returns… the almighty investor…

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1 point

or the torx-looking tip with the little raised dot.

That’s Torx TR, meaning “keep out if you don’t know what you’re doing”, they’re freely and widely available, not stopping anyone just giving pause. Completely different ballpark than vendor-specific heads or one-way heads or stuff someone will sue you for if you produce drivers.

Heck if you buy a random small bit set, not a security one mind you but ordinary, chances aren’t small that the Torx bits are going to be TR as you can use them with non-TR torx.

That’s not to say that you should use them for user-servicable battery compartments, on the contrary: Those are supposed to be “yep come in it’s quite idiot-safe in here” types of places. But you’d want them when you dig further into the phone as doing things the wrong way or just in the wrong order may damage stuff, they belong on PSUs so curious idiots don’t kill themselves, such applications.

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1 point

Hyperbole. To do it correctly you need a lot of tools which companies like Apple have made it very difficult to obtain. The risk of damaging the device is high for the average person.

I get that the majority of people here on Lemmy are likely to be more tech savvy than the average person, I don’t think we should set the precedent of exaggerated comments, we don’t want to become Reddit.

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8 points

You start a sentence with hyperbole and then go into an outright lie.

https://a.co/d/h73DLbO

$20

https://a.co/d/dPWrMFv

$10

You now own every single tool needed to replace an iPhone battery. They are absolutelty not difficult to obtain.

I mean I get it. Most of us here are tech savvy and capable. Would I tell my mom to do this herself? My girlfriend? 75% of people on the street? No to all the above. But don’t come in here and say something as blatantly false as “Apple has made [a lot of tools] difficult to obtain”. That is a bald faced lie and you do a bigger disservice to your argument when you add such a statement to it.

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0 points

People are gonna hate on this comment but it’s true. I can replace the battery in my iPhone in an hour if I want to, even if it’s not as easy as it used to be with removable plastic covers on the back of phones.

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2 points

On the Fairphone everyone can do it, without tools in under 30 seconds. That is replaceable, not having to order equipment and asking your family “IT guy”…

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Good luck on waterproofing.

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34 points

I wonder how apple will react to this

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69 points

Apple fanboy here… but they’re probably gonna market the feature with some cool new trendy name and make the battery replacements proprietary.

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41 points

It will be built from the ground up 😂

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13 points

Overcomplicated, overpriced, and they’re gonna incentive just getting the next gen phone.

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3 points

You mean built by some other manufacturer and marketed to seem like it was built from the ground up from Apple themselves.

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16 points

$300 battery for your iPhone

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3 points

Screens are now up there for genuine. Oh, and btw Apple very quietly implemented an “alert” when you have an aftermarket screen.

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11 points

Now i hope it says something about availability of the replacement batteries…

Due to unexpectedly high demand, the $300 battery you ordered has 5 months waiting list. Payment in advance, of course, for your convenience.

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5 points

I mean…battery replacements were ALWAYS proprietary. You can’t pop a Galaxy S4 battery in a GS 5.

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6 points
*

But you can put up a firmware barrier that keeps the phone from booting up, or at least from operating at full advertised capacity, unless it’s an “authentic” battery that’s been officially registered to that particular phone’s serial number, which can only be done via special tools and software that are only available to official Apple repair shops. They’ve done it with cameras and screens and buttons, why not batteries? It’s just another part.

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1 point
*

You can buy third party batteries. The batteries are customized to the phone, but they aren’t exclusively sold by the OEM.

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4 points

“And we think you’re gonna love it”

🙏

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4 points

It will be magnetic

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1 point

They’re going to see the battery is replaced and show your phone down. Just to be safe you know.

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1 point

Oh you probably shouldn’t go around admitting that so willingly.

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9 points

By designing a model of iphone with replaceable battery, of course.

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4 points

I think they’re already complying. Tri-tip bits are already bought easily and affordably on Amazon. Same with suction cups, picks and tweezers. Literally $30 or less to get all of the above in one nifty carrying case. If you have suction cups then you can break the screen seal without using heat and let’s be honest, hair dryers are perfectly adequate for these repairs. It’s literally what I use for friends and family repairs that I do at home rather than in my workshop.

I think it’s a step in the right direction but not even remotely strong enough to force change on current cell phones.

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3 points

Probably voiding warranty for any phone that has its battery replaced by the user instead of having it done at an apple store/apple vertified store. Or some good old planned obsolescence where the phone detects a replacement battery and just stops working as fast as it used to. Anything to get people to buy the next new iphone every year.

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1 point

I don’t think Apple really want to be caught to do somenthing they are already been condemned for, at least not in EU…

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1 point

Design batteries that can also function independently as a powerbank? That would be useful.

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