I really don’t get the need to have an app that does messaging. My phone DOES messaging, built in. Why do I need another one?
The only built in messaging app on my phone is “Messaging” that only handles SMS/MMS
Fratures like sending location, quoting messages, formatting text etc.
And also encryption (ideally E2E) and maybe privacy (depending on the messenger).
I assume you’re American? When you need to talk to people across borders you need something like WhatsApp. SMS doesn’t cut it.
I’d rather use Signal but whatever… I’m being practical. Everyone I know is on WhatsApp.
Yeah, same here. In Germany WhatsApp is extremely dominant. I tried to move to Threema, but only a couple of people are using it in the end, even after discussing the whole Facebook thing. Some people are also on Signal, but again, only a few. In the end, especially for groups, I still have to use WhatsApp.
The moment when I hear someone talking about SMS it is almost always an American. Can’t recall the last time I sent a text message to someone like that, wouldn’t surprise me if it was 10 years ago (for context: am Dutch)
It’s not just the US, but you gotta realize that SMS has advantages. It isn’t better than any other protocol, but it has the major benefit of not being tied to internet connectivity. There are a ton of places where data signals aren’t as reliable.
It’s universal, in that every carrier I’ve heard of has it. So it should work no matter what carrier you’re on.
It will work right out of the box with any phone you buy because it’s carrier based. You don’t have to install anything else to use it. You don’t have an extra login, no need to remember another password.
It’s simple. You type, and that’s it. No attachments (that’s mms), no stickers, no junk. This makes it fast and easy for anyone to use.
And, you don’t have to convince anyone else to install anything.
Obviously, there’s benefits to data messaging, I’m not saying there aren’t. I use other messaging way more than SMS, and have for maybe a decade now, though what I’ve used has changed over time.
But, yah, we yanks tend to value it more than the other countries where it’s still important. That goes back to the pricing when data became a thing. Anywhere that data was cheap but sms merered, adopted things like whatsapp. Anywhere that sms was cheap, but data expensive used SMS by default. Iirc, Canada is the other big SMS focused nation. I think there’s one or two in SEA, and the same in south America. I don’t recall any of Europe having been sms focused, nor Africa.
TBH though, I tend to not get why anyone cares what another country uses within its own system. Like, if the EU did away with SMS entirely, it wouldn’t prevent the US and Canada from having SMS. And if we did away with messengers via data (as dumb as it would be), y’all would still be fine.
The only time it matters is for international, or directly cross border communication. But there’s multiple standards for that kind of communication anyway. Me and you aren’t going to exchange phone numbers to use SMS, nor are we likely to use whatsapp together. If we struck up a friendship, we’d figure out what platform we both like, and use it. Since this is lemmy, I suspect it would be matrix or signal or maybe telegram.
I send SM’s to my kids when they’re on the go, as they religiously disable gsm data and only use wifi, which means they regularly don’t get my WhatsApp messages.
Before they got their own smartphone I was scared that their data plans would cost me an arm and a leg, but it turns out they’re extremely stingy with their data 🤷♂️
I think there is plenty of SMS usage in Europe.
It’s easy as a technically savy user to lose sight on what less proficient users are using.
Yes, my parents both use perfectly fine their WhatsApp but they still send/receive a lot of SMS.
For context, I’m in France.
I have Android, my wife has iOS, I can chat with her singly and in group chat with other family members, I don’t see a need to complicate things with another chat application.
What is the other person has a phone with different app preinstalled? What if you change your phone?
My wife has an iPhone, I have an Android phone, our kid has Android, his wife has iPhone… there have been zero problems using the native apps singly or in groups.
In fact, I had more problems trying a low-rent provider (Mint) than I ever did the various stock messaging apps.
It has at least one advantage relative to ie6.exe - it’s cross platform.
I only use it because there’s no way I could convince my friends and family to move to anything else.
There’s no point in switching to another app if I then literally couldn’t communicate with the people I need to through it.
Signal kinda put themselves out of the messaging app battle when they dropped SMS support
I totally get why they did it, but I think a lot of people stopped using it for this reason, unfortunately
I don’t really want to start a debate on the Signal SMS dropout but …
They could have put a big red warning and a disclaimer you have to read once for the unsecured SMS. It would have been fine.
Yes, you would have to maintain that but I think it would definitely have been worth it considering how much reach they lost dropping this feature.
I stopped using Signal when they did, and that’s one less tech user advertising their secure app.
It’s a shame because I think this will slowly kill the project.
I’ve been using Beeper a month or two. They had a long waiting list, and initially it was subscription only, but they are working on smashing through the waiting list and have changed to a freemium model where you get it for free and (eventually) they will have extra features for subscribers.
Basically, it’s one chat app that connects to lots of different chat services.
If you’re technical, the app is a fork of Element, and the service uses matrix bridges to connect to different chat services, but it’s all presented in a (somewhat) polished way. The wait list is because they are still struggling with scaling and quirks but if you’re on Lemmy you’re probably already well familiar with putting up with this.
It covers heaps of chat networks. Whatsapp, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Signal, Telegram, and more. It also will let you SMS (unlike Signal 😬).
You can also connect to Matrix rooms but you don’t seem to be able to connect to an existing Matrix account (it uses a Beeper matrix account to connect).
It doesn’t do video/audio calls so they recommend you leave the original app installed and disable message notifications (but leave on call notifications) if you use this.
I remember I used to have Pidgin, but facebook closed the messenger API (I think, this was a while ago) How does this work?
That’s interesting!
I’m just not sure the “security” of WhatsApp is preserved in that case but it’s certainly better than not being able to talk to certain people at all.
Also I think these kind of meta chat apps have been tried before and it usually doesn’t end very well so I’m not sure I would be super optimistic.
Any of the chat provider can break their link to beeper and since they probably don’t really care about it it shouldn’t very reliable.
But a cool find nonetheless!
Well, that’s super neat and very useful for my circumstances. I’m moving outside of the US soon to a place where WhatsApp is dominant, but I still want to use SMS/MMS with family and friends in the US since I doubt they’ll make the switch. I’ve been using WhatsApp for about a year now while coordinating stuff for my soon-to-be home and I’ve come to the conclusion that WhatsApp is complete garbage.
I literally installed Telegram/Signal on my families devices, synced their contacts with the app, and said “if you want timely responses, message me here”
I hope that the DMA gets passed in the EU. It’ll (hopefully) break the monopoly worldwide
I only heard of it because I follow Matrix blog.
I saw the technical discussions (if you are a tech person I would recommend watching those on YT) and it seems that EU is trying to find some middle ground where companies won’t have to incur a lot of losses but still be open and create a fair environment for newcomers.
Interoperability is a weird one though. Imagine WhatsApp can connect to Signal, and people use this feature. What would then be the point of using Signal, if WhatsApp gets the data after all?
(Signal has already announced not wanting to support this, I just used it as an example)
I just don’t want to be tied to an apple device to Message people who only have iMessage. I live outside of the US but all my family, friends, and contacts are there.
I feel locked into iOS as international texting and calls would be so expensive.
Both Apple and Google need to get their shit together on this one, put their pride aside and agree on a standard.
As I understand it, your example should be the other way around. WhatsApp will need to offer a public API to allow Signal to send and receive messages to/from WhatsApp users.
Signal is unlikely to be deemed a gatekeeper, so can keep their closed communication ecosystem. They can just optionally choose to support interop with WhatsApp. If they prefer, they can also have big warning signs in the UI, when their users decide to utilize that interop.
Whatever way it works, I could see people giving up certain services if they allow interoperability with the gatekeepers, because why use these alternatives then.
But then again, the services that take privacy seriously won’t do it in the first place, so it should be a non-issue.
True. However there are certain advantages
- WhatsApp gets only a part of your data (coz many people might be on different apps)
- You don’t have to run WhatsApp on your device so they can’t collect that data either
I know it’s not perfect but better than the current scenario and a step in the right direction
Since WhatsApp is proprietary, we don’t know if the users are the only ones who can decrypt their messages. I’ll always have to assume Meta can read everything, which is the most sensible data they could possibly collect.
So that alone should be reason enough to avoid it.
So what needs do you have outside of a different look? Privacy doesn’t seem to be one of them, and the two apps are very similar otherwise.
I think it’s already been passed, it should be coming into force next year!
Oh yeah it says it directly on the wiki page you linked XD
was signed into law by the European Parliament and the Council of the EU in September 2022
Signal is the best.
The thing it’s missing the most is better multi device support and an updated desktop client.
For me, I think Matrix is more complete (specially since it backs-up your chats and media encrypted). The only thing it’s lacking (at least Element specific) is encrypted chat search support on mobile.
Signal client looks optimized on MacOS and Linux i don’t use Windows so not sure what’s going on there
I use it for linux. Recently there was a bug where if you had a chat opened, it would pin one core to 100% usage. It also lacks feature parity with the mobile client (ex: gif search and send).
I use it on windows. The client is totally fine for the most part.
Though for some reason it regularly screws up the device-connection, forcing me to reconnect the device, loosing access to every old message. Seems to be a rare bug though, as my family also uses the windows client and theirs never has this problem (out of 8 device 1 has this problem)
Yeah, it sucks that if I were using Signal only on my phone and eventually decide to start using it on desktop, it doesn’t sync any conversation history, resulting in the desktop client showing nothing from before you set it up. It should have older devices send history to new ones. If you’re permanently switching devices, are you losing that history for good?
Nope, you can backup the chats and import them when installing Signal on the new device
What matrix is missing is anyone that I know. Ultimately that is way more important than features in a messaging client.
In my personal experience, everyone who has an account with Signal also has with Matrix. The main issue for me is who has an account at all.
There’s no way that we can have a mainstream alternative to imessage if we keep declaring a new app or protocol the new best one every two years.
I don’t think it’s really a chat app. Isn’t it just a text replacement? Or does it just use that number as your ID to use it? I have it, but only ever used it with one guy.
It has lots of nice features over SMS: read/typing notifications, image/video support, proper groups, message expiration. I think that makes it a chat app
