Engineering is one of the few non-scam college degrees
I don’t believe anyone managed to learn anything useful about history or economics or literature in high school. Or about anything else. I wish more people were able to seriously study these subjects as adults with the guidance and correspondence of a global community of fellow students and access to centuries of past discussion and debate.
People telling you there’s nothing more to learn (or that the “soft sciences” offer nothing better than your personal intuition) are the scammers.
It’s worse than that, most things you learn in high school end up being either false or so simplified it ends up misleading (think common misconceptions). Biggest offenders tend to be history and hard sciences, although that might be mostly since we don’t even offer things like psychology or sociology outside of a few elective APs (and imagine how prone to misinformation those classes could be if taught by someone following their personal intuition!)
Dunno how it is in other countries with a recent slave past, but Brazil did an excellent job in erasing both native and African ethnicities in my school years. You never learned about specific native tribes like the Aymore, Tupinamba or Goitacaz, it was always “the natives” and all African slaves were just that, “African slaves”, no difference between the ones from current day Mali, Angola or Somalia.
Whenever the books talked about the expeditions into the heartlands, the bandeiras, they rarely or never mentioned local tribes that might’ve helped them, whether in goodwill, in exchange of something like getting rid of old enemies, or by force.
Another thing that school glossed over was one of the many slave revolts, the Malês Revolt. I vaguely recall that the book said that slaves organized by leaving written notes, but it never mentioned that said notes were written in arabic, because those slaves were from Mali and most of them were muslim, thus they could read and write in arabic. It also never taught us that, after the revolt was quashed, nearly every slave from Mali was sent back to Africa and the city of Salvador, the focus point of the revolt, expelled every muslim and removed every mosque it had.
Man, I could go on for a while, just comparing what I remember being taught in school and all the stuff left out that’d make me really damn interested in paying attention to classes.
Art, philosophy, and English degrees :P
Edit: I was kinda kidding guys, I took philosophy classes, my father is a sculptor, and I dabbled in the fine arts.
That said, I encourage all of you in the traditional disciplines to have a plan for employment after school- teaching or related fields are fine! But have a plan!
Doesn’t sound like a scam to me.
Computer Science and Business. I say that with 15 years of experience in both those industries.
CompSci is a legit subject, mostly as an area of mathematics, but doesn’t have a whole lot to do with building software systems.
Business school is for people who couldn’t hack it in any other degree program.
You’ll get a lot of people arguing arts degrees where there aren’t jobs are scams.
Frankly, I think there’s a divide between what we expect of education and what education should be.
There’s kind of a spectrum from required credentials like medical, law, or engineering degrees, to things like stem programs which are not required but open job doors, to arts degrees where there’s not really many direct careers being opened.
Charging an arm and a leg for arts programs is a scam because it’s not opening the same economic opportunities as career based degrees. Having or providing arts degrees is totally fine, they just need to be cheaper.
I think the main benefit of an art degree (for the average person) is learning to research, communicate ideas, and think critically. I have a degree in political science and work in an IT/business role but I absolutely don’t regret my choice of degree.
It’s only a scam if they’re being misleading. I’ve never heard anyone say “get an art degree, you’ll get rich!” It’s not a scam to study art simply because you want to develop your knowledge and talents in a structured way. Should art degrees cost as much as they do? Probably not, but “expensive” and “scam” are two different things.
Did anyone ever actually get a Trump University degree? It only operated for like 5 years. Imagine being the poor schmuck with a framed Trump University degree on his pawn shop office wall.
I mean, all it takes is a look at the cost of shit like tuition and text books to conclude college is a scam, but that doesn’t equal a disrespect for the knowledge of people who’ve gone through it.
I don’t know, finishing my engineering degree has opened up many a door to well paying careers.
My other two bachelor degrees (business and criminal justice) are completely useless.
There are mainly 2 types of “college is a scam” people. Type 1 is anti-education and places more value on what they typically refer to as “common sense” and think that you don’t need an education to know about something. They’re the type most likely to think they know more than experts and argue with engineers about bridges. Type 2 is more anti-capitalist and doesn’t view education as a scam itself but rather how costly that education is and the opportunities provided to educated people who paid the price is what they see as a scam. They’re usually capable of recognizing and acknowledging their lack of understanding about a topic and listen to experts because they do value education, they just think access to it should be easier and cheaper and provide more tangible results for the effort put into obtaining it. This post is probably talking about type 1.
The difference lies in whether the speaker thinks the problem is the clearly evident financial exploitation or thinks that the education isn’t valuable.
(I almost walked away from commenting on this like three times. Hopefully I made sense) I don’t believe that modern college equals education, necessarily. How many corporate VPs have impressive college credentials but took nothing away more than future networking? Education is extremely valuable as is an educated society. And I get that we’re talking about people who do not value the societal benefit of a well-rounded education. Schools don’t seem to value it anymore either. We’ve commodified “knowledge”. It’s merely a stepping stone to better earnings. Engineering and medicine, though, are two positions I think anyone with a couple of brain cells to rub together should value the quality of their educations.
I’d argue that commodification of knowledge doesn’t equate to the college experience not being educational. A lot of it boils down to the individual getting out of it what they put in: I’ve had my share of bullshit online classes that I only took to check the prereq box, didn’t give a single flying fuck about the material, gave it the absolute minimum, and finished it having gained only debt and a slightly shinier transcript. I don’t remember shit from those classes other than the feeling that they were a waste of time and money.
They were fascinating to some of my classmates. And vice versa: microbiology for example was one I didn’t think I’d take much out of when I was doing pre-nursing (there are way better study-of-tiny-bastard topics for pre-nursing, like clinical pathology; microbio is WAY more broad, and hit or miss in relevancy to the kind of work nurses do). Some of the topics microbio blew my fucking mind though… like did you know some bacteria have a literal fucking motor inside of them that spins their flagella around like a microscopic propeller?! Or a protein that walks along the lengths of nanotubuoles. We are stuffed with tiny, home-grown robots… and it makes my brain explode. Other pre-nursing peeps though? Couldn’t give the tiniest bit of a shit about it, cuz knowing about walking proteins n’ whatnot isn’t useful AT ALL for nursing.
And people like to bitch about English classes, but having been on the workforce for a good couple of decades now: writing is how you advance your career. SO useful, but SO underrated and undervalued by students.
I took a criminal justice course cuz I needed an elective and the classes I wanted were all full, so… fuck it. Wrong field, didn’t care, just there to check the box… walked away with a fresh appreciation for how fucked up our legal system is, and a kind of legal mindset for some non-criminal topics but turn out to be applicable.
Point is: the knowledge and education are there; whether the individual student engages with it in a meaningful way is up to the individual student. I’ve been on both sides of the coin, and have been surprised a few times.
Same thing with Big Pharma. People hear that pharmaceutical companies are greedy and untrustworthy and think it means that their medicine doesn’t work. It does, they just charge excessive amounts of money for it. We don’t hate big pharma because vaccines don’t work, we hate Big Pharma because they sell insulin at a 10,000% markup
it’s only a scam if you believe it is.
There’s this thing called “law”, you know, and every country has a number of scams defined as crimes, though some may not fall in those terms. “Feeling happy about it” is what kids these days call copium. Deluding yourself won’t make the decisions good, they’ll still be objectively bad and trying to reframe like that will make you look stupid.
It can be a scam, especially if your not gonna use your degree.
I have had more PhDs recommend against college than for it. I’m not joking. It’s scary.
They’ll tell you that if you can get by without a degree, by all means do or at least heavily consider it.
Education is undoubtedly important, as often evidenced by people’s lack of it. But even those who ran the gauntlet decades ago have lost faith in the system.
And now we have a whole new litany of problems on their way because of the rising prominence of GenAI and I can confidently say that academia is wholly unprepared for the shit storm coming it’s way.
I’m guessing that’s more because they’ve spent a good decade or so working on their degree, which is probably too specialized to get the job they want in their field.
There is such a thing as too much college too. PhDs are very handy if you want to be a professor or go into a very specialized field and hope there are available jobs. Not so much for everyone else.
There is also the cost to benefit ratio. Even IF you can get a job in your chosen field, the cost of the education to get there and the increasing pace of industrial change as required knowledge grows and changes can make your degree not really worth the effort. While I certainly don’t know for sure, it could be conceivable that the world might not even miss half of collage graduates produced today. And most people could make a living with a “simpler and more focused” technical education.
The world will always need carpenters, plumbers, electricians, accountants, and garbage collectors. And perhaps not so many people with a Master’s degree in library sciences or maybe with the advent of AI, even human programmers.
I think there’s an inflationary effect where so many people go to university that a regular degree is devalued. It leads to people who wouldn’t otherwise do postgraduate study to do some to be as competitive as an undergrad degree was years ago. I see people sleep walking into postgrad study because they don’t know what to do after graduation because an undergrad degree is so limited nowadays
We always seem to equate common sense and education.
I’ve met some dense people with PhDs. And some smart people that never got formal education.
Obviously best case is smart and educated. But you can’t teach someone common sense.
Just out of curiosity - which country was your sample from, if I may ask?
US. So perhaps not representative of international trends. Altogether worrying with implications for US education standards though. The whole college/trade/career decision logic among the US public is seriously out of whack because parents kept preaching it was either college or burger flipping, unless you had a talent or parents with money of course.
The US education system, academia, and workforce are all incredibly and seemingly unappealably fucked. The bigger picture is just some madman’s abstract expressionism. I’m convinced the Russians are behind it all, somehow because just wtf it is actually looney levels of destabilizing and I fear it all comes crashing soon enough. But whatever, stop worrying and love the bomb I guess.
Basically, America’s poorer majority have the free choice which rich conglomerates they want to be exploited and/or drained dry by? Legalised wage theft, student loan debt, ludicrous cost of privatised healthcare - spoiled for choice which monopoly to hand their entire fortune over to, really…