edit: thank you all for your replies! They are all very helpful. I am reading through them and will ask follow-up questions if needed.
I made a post some days ago asking about LineageOS, but my curiosity towards Google Pixels and GrapheneOS has been growing. As somebody who has always used regular Samsungs and iPhones, I hope somebody can clear up some questions I have regarding this OS.
I plan that my next phone is to be either a Motorola (LineageOS/SailfishOS?) or a Pixel (GrapheneOS). My first question about GrapheneOS, or really any non-standard OS, is this:
- how does having an account on the device work? For example, Samsungs require a Samsung account and iPhones require an iCloud account. How does it work on non-standard OSes?
My second question touches on built-in apps that you often get with every phone:
- does GrapheneOS have its own Notes/Drive/Photos/Messages app? If not, how does one go about obtaining these? Related question:
- how do I sync my notes/photos/files/etc to the “cloud” of GrapheneOS?
My third question regards the app store of GrapheneOS. I have heard that the sandboxed Play Store is better than FDroid, for instance; what are your thoughts? Do I go for Aurora Store instead? Is there any major difference at all? Is it possible to use multiple app stores?
- note that I likely won’t be solely relying on FDroid since I need some non-FOSS apps (FB Messenger for contacting family for example).
I know that in the privacy community, it’s very common to fix up a cloud of your own (i.e. NextCloud). I have no experience doing this, but is it something I must do when I install atypical OSes? Then comes the question about pricing, how private and secure it really is, which one to choose… and so on.
I understand many of these questions will sound stupid to those who are experienced, but I have not been part of this community very long. Feel free to link any educational videos or articles that answer my questions. I hope to learn more about this subject and one day installing a more secure system on my phone. Cheers!
I am using GraphineOS right now. Here’s my answers:
- Accounts are local. They don’t necessarily have an online component. Aurora store works fine. The only major issue is some apps from the play store will break if you don’t have Google services installed. The level of breakage really depends how the app handles this lack. Sometime you may not have a feature and other times it will just not run. You can install and run Google services but I’m unconvinced that your privacy will be protected just by the sandbox. A possible solution is to run all that stuff in it’s own profile. You can’t run both simultaneously, though.
- For synchronization, I use Syncthing. It’s not to the cloud but it’ll get files and photos off your device. As for notes Turtl and I believe Obsidian sync to their own servers. Mega.nz runs on GraphineOS also. I don’t know if it syncs, though
- Notes - no. I use Turtl. But I’ve heard good things about Obsidian. Drive - don’t know wouldn’t think so. Photos - yes. Messages - yes. For the last two, you’d have to find a solution if you want to back them up.
For backup, GraphineOS will also backup to USB drive.
Like all things, it a trade off. You trade security for convenience.
But one very nice surprise is I now have so much better battery life. I’m getting nearly 3 days off a charge!
how does having an account on the device work? For example, Samsungs require a Samsung account and iPhones require an iCloud account. How does it work on non-standard OSes?
On GrapheneOS, you don’t log in to any online account. All your stuff is just locally stored on your device by default. You can install third-party apps to sync your data, but GrapheneOS has no online account/sync system built in.
does GrapheneOS have its own Notes/Drive/Photos/Messages app? If not, how does one go about obtaining these? Related question:
It has the standard Android (non Google) File manager, Gallery and SMS app. These aren’t particularly good though. I recommend Fossify apps, they are completely free and open source, respect your privacy and offer a pretty good user experience. Fossify has a notes app, gallery, file manager, SMS app, phone app (dialer), music player, clock, keyboard, launcher and some other stuff.
how do I sync my notes/photos/files/etc to the “cloud” of GrapheneOS?
GrapheneOS doesn’t have a cloud. You need to find a solution for syncing your data yourself. There’s DAVx5, which uses the WebDAV protocol, Nextcloud, EteSync, PhotoPrism, Immich and many more. They all serve different purposes. DAVx5 works with any WebDAV-compatible server, it lets you sync calendars, contacts and tasks. Nextcloud is a self-hosted replacement for things like Google Drive, it lets you sync files, calendars, contacts, notes, photos, bookmarks, recipies, basically everything you could imagine. Note that the official Nextcloud app only lets you sync files, but there are other Nextcloud-compatible apps on F-Droid that let you use more features of the Nextcloud server. Both PhotoPrism and Immich are self-hosted solutions for syncing your photos, Immich has an official Android app on F-Droid , PhotoPrism only has this unofficial one called Gallery for PhotoPrism. If you’re not into self-hosting, there are still good, private options out there. EteSync allows you to sync your contacts, calendars, tasks and notes, and it uses end-to-end encryption by default. You can self-host it, but you don’t have to. You can just pay them $2/month and they will handle it for you. Personally, I like to self-host my own instance of Etebase, the backend server for EteSync. Other private, cloud-hosted options are Proton for email, calendar and files or Ente for photos (their app is also on F-Droid).
My third question regards the app store of GrapheneOS. I have heard that the sandboxed Play Store is better than FDroid, for instance; what are your thoughts? Do I go for Aurora Store instead? Is there any major difference at all?
Personally, I use Aurora Store if I need to download something from Google Play.
Is it possible to use multiple app stores?
Yes, you’re not bound to one app store, you can use multiple ones.
You can DM me if you have more questions.
+1 for recommending Fossify over ‘SimpleApps’
Extending the reply for ‘Sandboxed Play Store … F-Droid … Aurora Store’ -
- In case of Sandboxed Play Store - we’d need to login via a Google account in order to be able to download apps. Also, when we allow network access to the Play Store, it may send device info, app downloaded, updated etc related telemetry to Google. Also expect the promoted apps/games ads in the Play Store home screen.
- In case of Aurora Store - we can use it via Anonymous User or we can supply our own Google Account. Aurora Store just uses the credentials to download apps from Google Play, but other telemetry is limited compared to Play Store.
- In case of F-Droid store - It mostly hosts open-source Apps. And has cautions whenever an app uses proprieray libraries, code or needs access to specific network(eg - Telegram FOSS needs Telegram Servers access to function) in order to work.
I’d recommend you have both - F-Droid and Aurora Store. If you need to access the Play Store subscriptions, then you’d need to install Play Store as well.
Good job getting here.
- You won’t have any accounts to sign in to anymore unless you install an app that requires an account. You are free from forced accounts that track you.
- Graphene is very barebones at start. You need to use the web browser (Vanadium) to install an app store to download apps or download apk’s straight from the source/Github.
- You sync data by either manual backups or by using your chosen app for syncing. Syncthing, NextCloud, ProtonDrive, Ente, Immich, etc.
- I would say that the fdroid store is better than the PlayStore. Everything is open source, no ads, and a lot less/close to zero junk apps spamming my searches. You also have access to repositories to add even more apps.
- I would suggest looking at DivestOS instead of Lineage. It’s more secure as you can re-lock the bootloader. I do suggest Graphene over all else for you specifically as it’s incredibly simple to install and the Google Sandbox works very well.
So, regarding the account: it depends. AFAIK, there’s no “graphene account” in grapheneos, but you can use the regular google account after installing sandboxed play services. Note: you don’t have to, the only things from google I personally used were gcam (since their hdr+ thingy is quite good) and photos (since foss alternatives I’ve tried can’t 3d transform), both without play services and internet access. On other roms there may be an optional account (ex, /e/os).
Applications: there’s a messaging app (regular SMS) and gallery (not sure here, tho, mb there wasn’t; once again I decided to keep using google photos), otherwise - nope. All can be obtained from f-droid/play store/aurora. Syncing probably needs to be done via 3rd party stuff (I’d probably go with self-hosted nextcloud instance, which can be done rather easily and for free with tailscale if you have a spare laptop/pc)
App installation: I personally went with f-droid plus aurora (since the proprietary software I use doesn’t rely on play services other than for sending notifications, exception - gcam, but fixable with gcam services provider from f-droid with the caveat of not being able to use sandboxed play services due to the name collision). Idk how exactly sandboxed play services are “better” compared to f-droid, mb in terms of software availability? Otherwise I prefer f-droid since stuff there is Foss, trackerless and overall better audited (paste here the links to numerous articles about actual malware being found in play store).
Self-hosting nextcloud is relatively easy (I can drop some links later if you’re interested), but you can also keep using whatever you used before. Also (correct me if I’m wrong) /e/ provides their cloud with some amount of free storage, so you may want to start with that.
Hi, thank you for the comment! I’m very interested in those links about getting started with NextCloud. :)
So, as I’ve mentioned, you’ll need another machine (I’d advice running Linux on it, but it’s probably not strictly necessary)
The easiest route would probably be to run their all-in-one docker image. I believe, their instructions are rather straightforward. It would be enough to expose port 8080 only in the provided docker run command.
Then accessing from outside the local network may be accomplished via tailscale.
By default it will be accessible from within your tailnet only, but if it doesn’t suite you (e.g. you want to use another VPN on your phone to hide your traffic from your provider or bypass regional restrictions) you can expose it to the internet via tailscale funnel.
- You don’t need an account, and there is no such thing as a GrapheneOS account. Most of your apps should be able to be installed through either F-Droid, Obtainium, or the sandboxed Play Store. Some apps require Google Play Services, however, but LineageOS has an alternative called microG which works most of the time, and GrapheneOS containerises apps.
- GrapheneOS, I believe, uses the default gallery and SMS apps from stock Android; and they also have their own camera, PDF viewer, and web browser (Vanadium), which are developed in-house. However, cloud syncing and note-taking apps are not included. I would suggest either having a look on F-Droid, asking on this sublemmy, or checking out Privacy Guides to find some apps you’ll like.
- GrapheneOS doesn’t have a “cloud”, as such. This is a good thing, and it lets you choose your own provider if you must. I would personally recommend Filen for files and photos, and Cryptee for notes.
- It is completely possible to use multiple app stores. If you use GrapheneOS, I would say use F-Droid or Obtainium when possible, and the Sandboxed Play Store for everything else.
- We like to use things like NextCloud because it gives us full control over our data, among other reasons. However, it is not essential. I, personally, use Filen for my cloud sync needs; but I also tend to use physical storage a lot because of my shitty internet and cheap hardware. You also don’t necessarily need to pay for these services, but it’s polite and it can improve your experience.
Good luck on your privacy journey, and don’t hesitate to ask more questions. In addition to Lemmy, here are a few good resources:
The past part sounds like a joke, love all the sources, but they all have a beef with GOS 😆
So bringing up GOS in those communities can spark some controversial discussions
In the meanwhile in GOS community it’s strictly prohibited to mention those projects, and every time any of the projects says “Graphene” GOS asks them to not to 😅
The past part sounds like a joke, love all the sources, but they all have a beef with GOS
It’s more the reverse. Some GrapheneOS users have had an extreme and obsessive hatred for anything associated with Techlore since the video revealing how insanely toxic the lead developer was. Because these people are borderline retarded, they associate criticism of a person’s behaviour as criticism of the project itself. As you say, Micay’s even gone so far as to outright censor discussion within that community. It’s all a bit sad and pathetic.
The Techlore community is pretty casual, they are nowhere near terminally online enough to “have beef” with another project. Discussion about GrapheneOS isn’t banned there, Techlore still has all his videos up recommending GrapheneOS, Privacy Guides still recommends GrapheneOS first in the Android section of their site, etc.
Mostly correct, but at the same time Techlore in their “Graphene toxic community” videos explicitly multiple times said that it’s better to avoid projects that have bad/toxic communities or devs
Hi! Thank you so much for the all the links, I really appreciate it. And thank you for introducing me to both Filen and Cryptee. Regarding Filen, I have a question. It says the price for lifetime starter is €30, but are there any other lifetime options (such as for the pro plans) that offer more storage?
I’m not entirely sure. I’m still using the free tier. A bit hypocritical for me to say that payment is polite, I know; but I do tend to use USB drives more than the cloud.
Do you know how Filen compares to Nextcloud or Syncthing? It’s definitely confusing to try to navigate in this huge technical world and know what service is the best haha
