Sup is a New Messaging App by the Creator of Pixelfed

A new messaging app is in development, and the project is described as “an open source WhatsApp for the Fediverse.”

something something 15 competing standards

unfortunately matrix sucks revolt isn’t federated and irc is outdated so

I just learned about Matrix recently. Seems like something that’d be good. What sucks about it?

Besides the main implementation synapse being slow, the new implementation dendrite is unfinished but progressing.

But technical standards aside, the hassle of managing encryption keys is too buggy and confusing IMO. That’ll deter most people I feel.

I want it to be great but it just isn’t there yet.

I personally really like Matrix, but there are a few outstanding complaints about it. The biggest one is that the reference implementation everyone uses by default is known to be bloated and slow, and poor at scaling. Server admins have had a huge challenge of supporting a large amount of data for things like room history, which in the past required propagation to every server hosting every participant. The protocol itself has been described by some developers as overtly complex.

Some of this seems to be improving, particularly with development of a Go-based backend implementation, Dendrite.

I’m not even close to an expert, but from what I have heard, matrix collects quite a bit of metadata depending on the server you are using/federating with.

IRC is only “outdated” if you make it so by using outdated networks like libera.chat that refuse to implement the newer standards that have been available for years.

Oh and XMPP is a thing and works great.

For some weird reason many people just plain ignore the existance of XMPP when they’re discussing decentralized protocols. Is it because Matrix outshadowed it?

Feels like Jabber has been around for a long time. If I’m not mistaken I remember my buddy pimping it as an AIM alternative back in the Napster/mp3 days.

XMPP is fantastic, but I feel as though it suffers from half-baked clients, most of which are a decade old and look the part.

I’d really love to see a “modern” WhatsApp-like take on an XMPP messenger, but I haven’t found any. Admittedly, I haven’t looked in some time.

Matrix is getting better on fast peace, we need to give it another yew years to fix biggest holes I guess.

ActivityPub based chat is going to suck much. Like basing chat on RSS or FTP, it can be done but why. Unless we’re talking just about replicating Instagram-like DMs then maybeee? But I still would like to just add link to Matrix in bio instead of having chat in yet another place.

Unless we’re talking just about replicating Instagram-like DMs

I think that’s exactly the niche this intends to fill. This is facebook messenger for the fediverse.

Oh boy… Another messenger… Yay…

Nobody is telling you to use it. This originally spun out of development of a messaging app just for Pixelfed, but evolved when the dev realized it could be made to work with any Fediverse account, not just his own server project.

An optimistic view is that it could end up opening the door for end-to-end encryption to come to private messages in Fediverse servers, over time.

I think what @deadsuperhero@lemmy.ml is trying to explain is that Mastodon and Lemmy for example may be able to implement Sup as a part of their softwares too. Currently if you try to DM someone on Lemmy, the options are a Matrix redirect, or Private Messages designated as not secured.

Though I do wonder about the viability of this. People would still need to set up with Sup to receive messages, at least as I understand it. As a result, this would run into a similar problem as matrix, just without needing to use a different federated server and login I suppose.

This would also require that project leads for AP softwares would want to accept the service as a part of their distribution, assuming it even is implmented in such a manner.

TL;DR it’s hard to say anything for certain when details seem to be slim.

With the open nature of the fediverse I actually see some potential here. Right now there isn’t a single messenger that I truly like. They’re all just different shades of okay or worse.

Matrix (element I guess)?

Doesn‘t quite have the userbase at least for me. I‘m only using it for one work contact and that’s it. I also heard from others who use Element a bit more that it’s quite buggy, although I haven’t experienced that myself yet.

What’s wrong with Signal?

Mobile-first, requires phone number, proprietary server-side, google play market.

Signal is great, but the core developer is inherently against federation with his own product. It’s just one giant centralized service.

It feels like I’m doing shady backdoor deals. It’s only for the people I conspire with and really close friends…

In which we just end up using regular old sms anyway lol.

Signal is too darn secure. Much better to have one dude who probably knows how to use a crypto library build the whole thing over again with a coat of ActivityPub on top

I wonder how it’ll compare to Matrix.

I think it’s intended to be more like WhatsApp, in the sense that you use it for one-on-one chats or messaging small friend groups. I don’t think it’s a current goal to try to take on Matrix / Element.