I dont really understand this. Does tiktok have a group call feature now? Or are they equating short form videos of strangers to “hanging out”?
Yeah I would consider Discord as more of a space people can “hang out” in.
I use discord but I didn’t realize how much others used it till I got new roommates. They basically have it perpetually open on the side, a perpetual portal to their friend network
Yeah I open discord every morning before I open slack for work. I manage two 2k+ communities and am an active member of dozens of other niche communities… Two of which involves members meeting up regularly IRL. It’s the best tool for direct social engagement on the Internet.
I wonder how much of the internet outrage about the bill is just astroturfing by tiktok.
Here… On Lemmy?
Fuck Tik Tok, ban all social media for all I care, the internet was much better with old forums and IRC.
It’s less about hanging out and more about occupying the time I guess. Teens hang out in a third space being social because it burns free time and releases dopamine. When you can achieve that by sitting in your room, getting dopamine by watching tiktok and sending them to your friends wordlessly, the need for the third space drops
I kind of get what the Twitter post was trying to get at its just written poorly. Anything that’s not them participating in the economy is considered bad.
Are kids disallowed from hanging out in parks, school clubs, or others’ homes now? What’s changed?
Nothing, it’s a ridiculous argument as a rationalization for arguing against the tiktok ban. I’ve seen a number of posts today trying to paint it as some attach on democracy or youth culture. The fact is that tiktok captures a giant amount of data and is directly accessible by a hostile foreign government. The ban makes sense.
The ban makes sense because companies in the US tried and failed horribly to gain traction in their youths. And it was critical of western governments being complicit in war crimes in Palestine.
Tell me, before tiktok, how many war crimes US commited were conveniently swept under the rug without consequences?
Can’t have public be aware of that, can we now?
But US wants to shape the narratives for the rest of the world with facebook, instagram and twitter and others. Failing to do that in their own country, they want to ban it as a last ditch resort. Can’t have narratives that don’t align with their propaganda and be critical of their military industrial complexes.
But you do you. I have no horse in the race but I love the outrage when people are on the receiving end of “foreign influence in social media”. Not like social media companies in the US were surveilling rest of the world for the last decade.
And it’s not like US hasn’t done this to Japan when it was going to become a better economy before.
Cope.
Wow, what a bunch of crap. Are you really, really holding up tiktok as a bastion of truth? Are you not aware of the many was crimes that US soldiers have been involved with that have sparked global outage, way before tiktok existed, because there really is a free press?
The US doesn’t have soldiers in Gaza, it’s not commiting war crimes there. You can make a good case that the arms were providing to an ally are being used to commit a genocide, which is plenty bad enough, but don’t weaken the term “war crime” by using it inappropriately. And it’s not like people are only finding out about it through tiktok. Go read NPR and you’ll see quite a lot about it. Read AP. Read Reuters.
But sure, go trust a site whose algorithms are controlled by the Chinese government and think that you aren’t being manipulated. You do you.
Parks are miserable, school clubs are worse, and it seemed like when I was a kid everyone was too embarrassed to have someone at their house.
Back in the day parks were well maintained by people who cared because they were a primary place many folks went to hang out.
Nowadays Xbox and the internet exist. So parks are much more poorly funded, poorly cleaned, and can be dangerous due to lack of oversight or supervision.
It depends a lot on where you are and where you go though. I went to a very nice park just last year that was clearly well maintained, and I’ve gone to some severely sketchy looking parks for the better part of a decade before that. As with all things, nothing is a monolith. But some parks are truly miserable now.
Ever been a teenager at a park? All that’s there is grass and maybe some picnic tables. What’re you gonna do? Smoke weed and sit? Throw a ball? The shit is boring and comes with weather.
Yet somehow the garbage dispensary known as tictok is preferable? Fuck off.
Parks are not miserable. It sounds like you’re the miserable one.
Glad to see someone pointing this out.
There are so many beautiful parks that are within walking distance or a short bike/bus ride.
How about libraries or all of the game shops that host free events for everyone to join?
Get your head out of your phone and see the life around you!
I think it’s very regional. Libraries and parks are going to get the first cuts when local government tightens its belts, they’re often save havens for the unhoused or those otherwise let down by society, and together that means in many areas they’re seen as maybe not unsafe, but not places overprotective parents want their kids going.
Absolutely. In fact, I have found that areas with the most disposable income also get the best city funding. So the people who can afford to pay for third spaces (restaurants, clubs, golfing) also have the nicest local parks and public spaces.
In my city, the low-income area local parks are literally paved with concrete and next to train tracks, busy streets and/or factories. It’s utterly bullshit
Simply different people expressing their opinion when they’re the ones concerned with the change happening at the moment.
I still hate it for that, but I also hate that the US government only cares if our privacy is violated by foreign actors and not a bunch of Silicon Valley dweebs.
Honestly, while it’s obvious why Tiktok is getting singled out, I hope it can be used as a precedent for cracking down on other data collecting companies.
It won’t, though, particularly because it’s specifically not required for TikTok to allow users to download their data if they’re divested to an American company before the deadline. Had anyone really cared, this would be a case for data privacy laws. But that’s not what it’s really about.
Yeah I think no one stops to ask who those silicon valley jerks sell our data to. The answer is anyone. Including big brother who otherwise cannot legally collect it - but it’s legal now because a company did it and we bought it!
Exactly. It’s like it’s only bad if China gets all our data and influences us without Zuck and Musk getting their cut. But as long as they have to buy data and ads from them it’s fine.
I still hate TikTok and am glad for the ban if it makes you feel better. Basically, what the other person said. It’s spyware trash that uses the way it controls opinions to control opinions on this topic too
coughs
Biggest online ad company is an American. Their job is to create and manipulate general public opinion for companies
Ok you win this round. Let’s agree to compromise - can we break up, ban, or regulate all of them?
Because tiktok is the only social platform that exists. Because libraries don’t exist. Because teens never go to the movie theater like their parents did.
My sibling in Christ you posted this on a social platform used by minors that is not under threat by the government
Some people just want to be angry.
Because teens never go to the movie theater like their parents did.
From OP:
if they’re spending money
A bunch of teenagers hanging out in a park are definitely going to have the cops called on them, no matter what they’re doing.
What if I told you that having absolutely no community third spaces is a result of car dependency?
Ever heard people complain that it’s impossible to just meet new people in real life because everyone everywhere is busy? It’s because we don’t have third spaces anymore, and one really big reason for that is car dependency. People really don’t like to drive, for the most part, and they’re generally not going to go drive to hang out somewhere; it becomes both dangerous and a special pain in the ass if alcohol enters the equation, as it does for many (but not all) third spaces. In short, if people go to a third space, it’s usually going to be one inside their own hyper local community or they won’t bother. These are all generalities, of course; miss me with anecdotal exceptions. Well, we keep our cities badly zoned and low density so that you don’t really have hyper local third spaces, you just get weird, semi-local, sanitized big box “third spaces” (massive sarcasm quotes) like Chili’s or Starbucks that don’t actually fill that role. They just want you to spend money and get out, there’s no actual tie to the community.
Having an outdoors that’s so utterly lifeless and hostile to anything that’s not a car that kids “hang out” on social media is neither normal nor desirable, unless you’re a tech exec, I guess.
What if I told you that having absolutely no community third spaces is a result of car dependency?
Then I’d suggest that if your only tool is a hammer, then every problem is going to look like a nail.
Like, I get it, fuck cars, but North American culture has been car dependant while having history of having the some of the highest third space membership, even in my own lifetime. While I accept it as a factor of the erosion, it’s unlikely to even be the primary factor.
Yeah a big part of third space culture where I grew up was things like “let’s go to x” followed by six people getting in a car with two seatbelts because the nearest “x” was like 20 miles away. And the car itself could be a meeting place if someone who barely interacts with your group hears about a trip and asks to jump in the car too
Yeah that works great assuming you have an already-established friend group within walking distance and parents that either have the time and will to chauffeur you around everywhere, or friend’s parents willing to do so with your own parents giving you the “freedom” to be driven around by people that are more than likely near-to-complete strangers to them. Which, in the age of helicopter parents, is a dying breed, and the first option almost completely excludes children of young, single, low-income, and otherwise struggling parents.
The decline in religion is more responsible for lack of third spaces than car centric cities.
That can be more or less true depending on the community. I imagine in the central and southeastern US, the decline of religion has been especially devastating in that regard. However you don’t see that pattern replicated in much more secular western Europe. In fact, they’re doing just fine for third spaces.
You must be an alcoholic.
I actually love to drive and wish I had a car to get to the games shop in a reasonable fashion for D&D or MTG where I’m only really expected to spend money for tournament entry because kicking ass isn’t free.
Barely touch the stuff myself, but I do consider myself practical. A lot of people like to drink in social settings, that’s neither endorsement nor criticism, but reality. I prefer taking my bike or walking so much more than driving, and it regularly bothers me that anywhere I could want to go is out of range or impractical/unsafe to reach by bike or pedestrian infrastructure. I don’t like driving, I find it expensive, a general pita, dangerous, ecologically damaging (not just CO2, driving just one kilometer can produce up to a trillion microplastic particles in the form of tire dust), and just really not that fun. But hey, to each their own. I just kinda wish we hadn’t built our urban environments to the exclusion of everyone but drivers.
We didn’t built our environments to exclude specifically non-drivers. We are all competing and driving is simply a massive advantage. It also means that places generally don’t have to be super close together to have business traffic and therefore benefit more from cheaper real estate.